SamBladon Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 I purchased a Sherpa last year with the intention of restoring as I have done a fair few in the past. I am just looking for a little advice as to the definite year/model as there are a few things puzzling me. To start off the bike is sat in a frame believed to be SM but can not confirm, the original frame is supplied which is numbers matching to the engine. Engine JM-19906685-A Frame JB-19906685-A The Number of the frame the bike is currently sat in is 685, no letters just the three numbers and looks to be chrome. Also the bike has what I believe to be an airbox mod which was throwing me off the year and model etc. After some research there seems to a airbox you can fit off a 151/138 model, enables the bike to breathe better. Can anyone shed any light? See attached photos. Thanks sam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section swept Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 (edited) Yep the air box is correct, it’s one many riders used to replace later model air box with as they were smaller. Your frame could be a Miller Hi-Boy but looking at the original frame which has the rear loop deleted I’d be using that one. Chrome plating frames can make them more brittle and as they get older; even more so. If you are selling the original Bultaco blue frame I would be interested as I’m in Nottinghamshire. I’m currently rebuilding/remaking/restoring a M80 Sherpa 250 this to came with a chrome frame and was supposed to be a Miller Hi-Boy but it turns out to be a Bultaco Frame chromed. There were some other small manufacturers that dabbled in frames for the Bultaco and others. Contacting Sammy Miller may be helpful but I doubt he has any records of frames produced, nor do I suspect you’ll get much info from the previous and new owners of Miller Products. The more I look at your bike the more I’d be inclined to go with the Bultaco frame as it’s going to be easier to prove ‘provenance’. Hope you find my input helpful? NB the waterproofing on the air box is not good, you will need to look into making this area better than Bultaco did. Edited March 4, 2018 by section swept Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBladon Posted March 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 hour ago, section swept said: Yep the air box is correct, it’s one many riders used to replace later model air box with as they were smaller. Your frame could be a Miller Hi-Boy but looking at the original frame which has the rear loop deleted I’d be using that one. Chrome plating frames can make them more brittle and as they get older; even more so. If you are selling the original Bultaco blue frame I would be interested as I’m in Nottinghamshire. I’m currently rebuilding/remaking/restoring a M80 Sherpa 250 this to came with a chrome frame and was supposed to be a Miller Hi-Boy but it turns out to be a Bultaco Frame chromed. There were some other small manufacturers that dabbled in frames for the Bultaco and others. Contacting Sammy Miller may be helpful but I doubt he has any records of frames produced, nor do I suspect you’ll get much info from the previous and new owners of Miller Products. The more I look at your bike the more I’d be inclined to go with the Bultaco frame as it’s going to be easier to prove ‘provenance’. Hope you find my input helpful? NB the waterproofing on the air box is not good, you will need to look into making this area better than Bultaco did. Thank you very much for your advice. My idea is to have the rear hoop replaced and then powdercoated to bring the bike back to original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Your blue frame is the original 199a type the numbers on both blue frame and engine match. In my opinion the chrome frame is a SM aftermarket one. Personally I would keep the blue frame because of the matching numbers. Airbox is from an earlier model but not sure which one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
model80 Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Nice 199A (Blue) original frame you have there. The re-working of the rear loop was a common modification to ape the set up on the last of the Sherpa's the 199B. If it was me I would re-marry the matching engine and frame. I would also go for a reproduction 199B airbox, filter and side panels. A great project, which just says to me " get the finger out on my own one". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullylover Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 The 199B side panels and airbox don`t fit any other model. I bought some to go on a M199 and they don`t fit the M199 or a M199A. The pins ore in the wrong positions. I would also put the engine back into the correct frame. The late Sherpa frames are very good. You have a M158/9, M182/3 or a M190/1 airbox in there now. They are the ones to have as they breathe better than all of the other airboxes. Graham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section swept Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, SamBladon said: Thank you very much for your advice. My idea is to have the rear hoop replaced and then powdercoated to bring the bike back to original. That rear hoop deletion was a works mod. From the picture it looks to have been carried out well. There could be more history to this particular bike and may well be worth checking further?? Also check the top tube for straightness they tended to bend especially if the bike was jumped like a m/x er. Looks fine but a good check is needed. I’m just over the ridge if you need help, tools, etc. Edited March 5, 2018 by section swept Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
model80 Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, bullylover said: The 199B side panels and airbox don`t fit any other model. I bought some to go on a M199 and they don`t fit the M199 or a M199A. The pins ore in the wrong positions. I would also put the engine back into the correct frame. The late Sherpa frames are very good. You have a M158/9, M182/3 or a M190/1 airbox in there now. They are the ones to have as they breathe better than all of the other airboxes. Graham. The 199B sidepanels fit directly into the sides of the 199B Airbox. The Airbox in turn is suspended from the bracket in the frame above. So I can't why this set up will not fit the Blue 199A frame pictured above. Edited March 5, 2018 by model80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section swept Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Sam you already have the ‘large’ air box fitted, just rework the poor waterproofing as mentioned already. The later model Sherpas had the smaller side panels that looked sleeker. Your set up correctly fitted will allow the engine to breathe more easily from the larger air volume.?? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 12 hours ago, model80 said: The 199B sidepanels fit directly into the sides of the 199B Airbox. The Airbox in turn is suspended from the bracket in the frame above. So I can't why this set up will not fit the Blue 199A frame pictured above. The B airbox attaches differently from the A airbox, so to fit one on the A frame the frame mountings need to be altered to suit the B mounting points. The B box intake is in the top and the rear A mounting point would sit right over the intake. The A sidepanel mounts also need to be removed but that's already don on this frame. I fitted one to my 198A, not sure if this link will work 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBladon Posted January 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 Thought it about time I replied to this thread. Bike is now finished, back in its original Matching numbers frame. Bike will be up for sale in the coming weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pschrauber Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 The rebuild is nice but now the gas tank is an issue. That is one reason I don't do too much to the outer appearance, the patina can be nice or a burden if you can't apply the newish finish to all parts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBladon Posted January 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 Thank you for you reply. The tank has not been seen to as yet. I have not decided which way to go, restore or leave as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 back mudguard needs sorting 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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