grant hay Posted March 31, 2018 Report Share Posted March 31, 2018 Hi , looking for some help with my new to me 16 4rt. I was out on it today for a short while and brought it home and washed it then fired it up to burn some of the water of the engine and thought id let it run till the fan came on. It sat running for about 10-15 mins as was not sure when the fans normally come on and no sign of the fan coming on so turned it off. After further investigation , I have found no sign of a fan relay anywhere but found cut wires which had been taped up and insulated, two red , a blue and a black so I'm assuming this is the fan relay wires and why my fans not coming on. 1st question , will I have overheated it with it sat idling with no fan on for 10-15 mins ? no overflow from rad or boiling over and bike is still starting and sounding ok. 2nd question , can anyone help me with wiring /diagram to wire a new relay in when I source one. Any help would be much appreciated. Cheers Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroke4stroke Posted March 31, 2018 Report Share Posted March 31, 2018 Fan relay sits in a rubber "box" just behind the steering head. It is commonly used as a starter relay on Hondas so pattern parts are readily found on the internet for about a third the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant hay Posted March 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2018 I've found the relay online for £15 odds , would be good if anyone had any idea what wires went to what pins on the relay, its definitely the fan relay wires that's been cut then covered. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsawyer Posted March 31, 2018 Report Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, grant hay said: I've found the relay online for £15 odds , would be good if anyone had any idea what wires went to what pins on the relay, its definitely the fan relay wires that's been cut then covered. cheers Here's a link to the 2017 4RT260 Owners Manual. Look at pages 6-10 and 6-11. On the left side of 6-11, there's a figure showing the connector that the relay plugs into. Note the color markings. The view is of the female connector as you'd see it while plugging in the relay. The text below says it's a 2P Natural, but it's a 4P Black connector on a bike that hasn't had it cut off. Use the hole where the relay assembly tang locks-in for reference. Also, the black wire should have a blue stripe. Edited March 31, 2018 by sportsawyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section swept Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, grant hay said: Hi , looking for some help with my new to me 16 4rt. I was out on it today for a short while and brought it home and washed it then fired it up to burn some of the water of the engine and thought id let it run till the fan came on. It sat running for about 10-15 mins as was not sure when the fans normally come on and no sign of the fan coming on so turned it off. After further investigation , I have found no sign of a fan relay anywhere but found cut wires which had been taped up and insulated, two red , a blue and a black so I'm assuming this is the fan relay wires and why my fans not coming on. 1st question , will I have overheated it with it sat idling with no fan on for 10-15 mins ? no overflow from rad or boiling over and bike is still starting and sounding ok. 2nd question , can anyone help me with wiring /diagram to wire a new relay in when I source one. Any help would be much appreciated. Cheers Grant You should be ok engine temperature wise, if there was; as you say, no overflow or boiling over. If the cooling system appears to have been buggered about with then some extra checks need to be performed. Find out if you can why the wires were cut, previous owner contact needed. The coolant temperature sensor may be faulty. Does the cooling fan run and spin freely if you connect direct to a power 12v source? I would suggest that you dump the current coolant fluid and replenish with new distilled water and the correct anti-freeze. This raises the boiling point of water and very often cheap inferior anti-freeze will allow overheating. Use distilled water as this will have no impurities that can attack the aluminium of the engine etc. even though the anti-freeze will contain corrosion inhibitors etc. A last check would be to ensure that the coolant pump actually works, in your case because the engine ran with no overheating it’s probably alright, but it can’t hurt to make sure. The more you know your way around bike the better?? Edited April 1, 2018 by section swept Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant hay Posted April 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 Thanks very much for the replies on this guys , has been a huge help. have found the relay wiring and started the bike and put one of the relay power wires to the fan wire and the fan is running good so just need to source a relay today and wire it in. there was no boiling over and there was no water from leak hole at water pump and the bike starts up and runs no problem so hoping it’s fine and has obviously been running like this for a while with no I’ll effects , the previous owner said he has no idea and wasn’t him who cut the wires , do they come wires with the relay in the headlight backing when the bike is new ? As maybe whoever took the lights off never bothered to wire it back in. how long does it normally take a 4rt to start from cold then idle till the fans come on ? If I drain the coolant from the drain bolt at water pump then refill at the radiator then is there any procedure to bleed ? Do you run it for a few seconds with the rad cap off to bleed any air out as there’s no expansion tank thanks again Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsawyer Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, grant hay said: (1) ... do they come wires with the relay in the headlight backing when the bike is new ? As maybe whoever took the lights off never bothered to wire it back in. (2) ... how long does it normally take a 4rt to start from cold then idle till the fans come on ? (1) On the ED and 2ED Street Versions, yes, the relay is in the headlight shell. On the 3ED and 4ED Racing Versions, the relay attaches to the electronics bracket that's above the transmission along with the condensor, regulator, and bank angle sensor. I don't know first-hand because I only own 3ED & 4ED models, but I believe you still have a connector for the relay -- the one that's used on 3ED & 4ED models and forks from the main wiring harness near the big ECU connector. I believe the headlight sub-harness P.N. 32101-NN4-J10 carries this connector forward to the headlight shell, and when the street lighting is removed, most owners use the HL located relay connector and stuff the relay in the headstock area. If you remove the fender and fuel tank, you may be able to trace the two red, blue, and black with blue stripe wires back to the aft end and find a relay connector already in your wiring harness. (2) Usually takes my bikes about 5 to 7 minutes for the fan to come on after a cold start. Edited April 1, 2018 by sportsawyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant hay Posted April 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 3 hours ago, sportsawyer said: (1) On the ED and 2ED Street Versions, yes, the relay is in the headlight shell. On the 3ED and 4ED Racing Versions, the relay attaches to the electronics bracket that's above the transmission along with the condensor, regulator, and bank angle sensor. I don't know first-hand because I only own 3ED & 4ED models, but I believe you still have a connector for the relay -- the one that's used on 3ED & 4ED models and forks from the main wiring harness near the big ECU connector. I believe the headlight sub-harness P.N. 32101-NN4-J10 carries this connector forward to the headlight shell, and when the street lighting is removed, most owners use the HL located relay connector and stuff the relay in the headstock area. If you remove the fender and fuel tank, you may be able to trace the two red, blue, and black with blue stripe wires back to the aft end and find a relay connector already in your wiring harness. (2) Usually takes my bikes about 5 to 7 minutes for the fan to come on after a cold start. Thanks for the help again. I have been out and stripped the bike down to give it a proper clean and search for the fan relay plug , no sign of it at the rear brake reservoir and wiring only branches from ecu to angle sensor/stator and regulator along with a small red capped plug. Managed to bleed the rear brake properly though which was a bonus The only wires correct to the fan relay are up at the headstock and when I put live to the relay output wire then the fan runs. With a bit of luck its been an honest mistake , the only other thing I can think of is that the temp sensor in rad is faulty and instead of replacing then they cut the relay off but if this was faulty then surely this would potentially make the bike run poorly which its not. Hopefully get a rc-2208 relay tomorrow and fit some insulated spades to the wiring in pics then try and tuck it in the headstock to get the fan running then will replace the coolant as noticed its a bit low and just level with the top of the rad cores. Again, thanks for the help much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section swept Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 4 hours ago, grant hay said: Thanks for the help again. I have been out and stripped the bike down to give it a proper clean and search for the fan relay plug , no sign of it at the rear brake reservoir and wiring only branches from ecu to angle sensor/stator and regulator along with a small red capped plug. Managed to bleed the rear brake properly though which was a bonus The only wires correct to the fan relay are up at the headstock and when I put live to the relay output wire then the fan runs. With a bit of luck its been an honest mistake , the only other thing I can think of is that the temp sensor in rad is faulty and instead of replacing then they cut the relay off but if this was faulty then surely this would potentially make the bike run poorly which its not. Hopefully get a rc-2208 relay tomorrow and fit some insulated spades to the wiring in pics then try and tuck it in the headstock to get the fan running then will replace the coolant as noticed its a bit low and just level with the top of the rad cores. Again, thanks for the help much appreciated. Bleed the cooling system. Refill SLOWLY with correct mix of distilled water and anti freeze wish the bike held upright ( not on side stand) . Allow a few minutes for air to escape and coolant to settle. Run engine with rad cap off for about 4-5 minutes. Turn engine off and again allow coolant to settle....some may have been expelled by running engine and trapped air getting out, top up and run engine again for 4-5 minutes. Refit rad cap and run until cooling fan cuts in. KEEP an eye on temperature with a digital thermometer do not allow temp to go above 90 degrees C, your engine should operate around a steady 72-75 degrees C under normal conditions; this is the optimum for fuel burning and what we engine tuners aim for, any more or less and power drops off. And here comes the first wave of ‘oh no it doesn’t’ commentators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant hay Posted April 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Quick update on this ... Drained old coolant and removed radiator and fan , cleaned muck etc out of radiator fins and rebuilt and refilled with fresh coolant then ran and bled system Wired in new fan relay and fan cutting in at 70 deg and cutting out when temp drops to 61 deg . Thanks for everyone's help on getting this sorted Grant 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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