Moto Tassinari VForce Reeds

[dan williams]

Any one who has followed my Beta posts for a few years knows that I am a huge fan of the Moto Tassinari VForce carbon reeds. Much to my chagrin Moto Tassinari discontinued the V351C reeds for the Beta and Sherco. I’ve heard various reasons from reed life to breaking cages and I did have a cage failure some years ago leading to a long push out of the woods.

But here’s the thing, the Beta runs soooo  good with the VForce reeds that I wanted a set very badly for the new bike. I contacted Moto Tassinari and asked about a set for the new bike and one of their guys said they can build up some for me. Then I never heard back. OK fair enough. He was probably shot down by his bosses. So routing around for an alternative I scoured the website for similar reeds. If you dig deep enough you find the KTM 85SX from a few years back had a reed cage that looks exactly like the standard Beta reed cage, as in Beta buys them from the same manufacturer similar. Hmmm I thought, Moto Tassinari makes a reed for the older KTM 85SX that has almost the same part number as the Beta/Sherco reed V351B. So I bought one.

The reed is an exact bolt in and the only difference is the reed petals are 3P412H vs 3P412M (hard vs medium). I had a set of replacement reeds for the previous bike so I disassembled the reed block and replaced the hard reeds with the mediums. The other difference is the original V351C was originally designed for the 26mm Mikuni so there was a lip with the Keihin. With the V351B block there is a slight lip on top and bottom however the opening to the block is a large rectangle so there is in reality much more area. The OEM KTM intake boot (KTM used a Keihin PWK28) looks to be a direct bolt on but I’m not certain until I get one to try.

One other thing to note is the reed cage material now seems to be a heavier plastic. Almost like a fiber reinforced plastic. This makes it harder to take apart and snap together and the older 3P412M reeds didn’t fit as well needing a little nudge to get them onto the tabs that hold them. The other thing that was odd was the inner reeds are held in place with a pin that seats them onto their tabs and the reed block I got the pin seems to have been assembled backwards. I plan to talk to Moto Tassinari about that.

So how does the new bike run? This weekend was my first time out with the low compression head, carb jetting tweak and VForce reeds. Previously I had two days out on the new bike in stock trim and was stalling all over the place. Yesterday the Beta pulled off idle like a freight train. Power builds smoothly to a respectable top end though it gives a little away on the top due to the low compression head. Fine with me, I don’t spend a lot (any) time at full throttle.

Am I happy? Oh Yeah!

[wheelieman14]

I was pleasantly surprised that my 2015 Beta Evo 200 already had the V351C VForce3 reed cage installed by previous owner, so the extra set of carbon fiber replacement reeds will still be good spares for either the Evo 200 or Evo 300. I'm not using a low compression head on either bike and they both run very strong with these reeds. Good find to see the V351B block from KTM 65SX fits the Beta Evo models with Keihin PWK carb.

Edited April 10, 2018 by wheelieman14
KTM 65SX (through 2008 from MotoTassinari)

[carlos]

Have you ever tried a Beta 300 SuperSmooth? That bike has the nicest power i have ever tried.

[dan williams]

Some years ago but I don’t like the extra flywheel weight.

[carlos]

I noticed on the Moto Tassinari website that the KTM 65 also has a reed cage setup very similar, smaller throat diameter hole, but does use the softer reeds. I imagine using the stiffer reeds would not give you the quicker throttle response? They also make a reed cage set for a variety of 50cc European enduro engines, (Husky, Beta, Fantic, Aprillia, etc...) 351 B-S, does not give the inside throat size, but the outside bolt dimensions are very common. (Wouldn't be surprised if Girondeli made all the cylinders) What changes did you make to the carb to work with the V-force reeds?

[dan williams]

No changes for the reeds but the bike came with a 48 pilot and the needle on the fourth notch so I changed to a 50 pilot and needle to center notch. (Stock settings for my ‘13) I think the leaner set up is for emissions as that’s now part of the technical data on the web site. Along with the security screw on the intake there were different color markings on the carb which makes me think it will soon be tamper proof fuel systems as the norm.

[carlos]

Just noticed something else, the V-force3 reeds have an inner slip in piece, different between the 50cc (round 21.6mm) and the 65ss (oval 30mm) Does this inner piece just pop out? Is it hard plastic or resin? and do you think the smaller round one could be ground out ?  I also notice that the newer KTM 50 and KTM 65cc (2009-20015) have an updated part# V355 both A and B. They show this model as using the same size gasket as the 351, and using the harder 3P412H reed, so it must also work. However they do not include the inner dimensions. Would have been nice if Moto Tassinari had answered your face-book inquiries, but i guess that they didn't sell enough trials parts to make it worth their while.

I tried the Boyseen carbon reeds in my 2017 250cc Factory Beta, didn't notice much difference. Noticed a better improvement when i replaced the 48 pilot to a #50.

[dan williams]

Hmmm I see on the Moto Tassinari site they list those reeds for the 65SX I may have got that wrong saying 85SX but I do remember reading it somewhere. There is a separate piece that fits into the inlet side of the reed cage and I think that is the difference between the various 351 models but they don't show drawings for all of the variants. I wish they did. On bikes that spend 95% of their life at idle to 1/4 throttle the inlet shape will have no effect. For kiddies on little MX bikes where they are wide open all the time it may cause some small incremental loss of power. I bought some of the Carbon Tech  reeds as a backup plan but never installed them.

[carlos]

KTM 85cc is a different part#, also different distance between the four bolts, will not fit. Moto Tassinari does have some dimensions for the 351A and the 351B, but not for the 355. Might be worth contacting them and asking if they will sell the inner replaceable piece seperately.  Don't know where your riding but my 250 has to rev up to 1/2 or 5/8 throttle and sometimes even 3/4 often enough to get my 225lb plus up our hill's and steep ridges!

[carlos]

Just ordered a V351B from Moto Tassinari, got them to swap out the 3P412H reeds for the softer 3P412M, they even gave me 10% off. I'll let you know how they work out on my 2017 Factory 250 Beta when they get here.

[dan williams]

10% off!! Son of a ***** all I got was a hat!

Just kidding, I think you’ll really enjoy the way the bike runs with them. Especially slow hill climbs.

[carlos]

Got em, says V351C right on the box. They look awefully cheap and plasticy!  Will try them out on Sunday.

 

[carlos]

Got to try the v351c v-force reeds out today, pulls a little smoother and stronger off idle up to mid, but not as strong as the boyseen reeds from mid to top end. Still feels too rich, will have to play with it some more. Pulls the nicest wheelies. I can see why you would like these reeds on a 300.

[dan williams]

Just FYI I went back to the 48 pilot as the 50 made the engine surge a bit rolling on power.

[dan williams]

Finally got out on the new bike with tweaked suspension (heavier springs, 2.5wt fork oil) and not having a cold. Still lovin the VForce! Not a stall all day and this bike is geared up higher than the ‘13.