Softening a Vertigo

[jonnyjibs]

Hi

As the title says, has anyone tried softening a Vertigo, (of any cc) by either adding an additional base gasket or a head insert?

If so was there a discernible change and how does the alteration work with the fixed EFI maps?

Edited May 26, 2018 by jonnyjibs

[theluckyone]

I have a 2017 250 Combat and use it mainly in program 3 (ie richest/softest). I have fitted a 550g flywheel  weight (available from Vertigo) last week and think this improves the bike for my old skool riding style/limited ability. So far I've only tried it on very steady practice. I'm riding a trial this weekend and I'll see how it works in the sections. I think mine has the quick throttle so may swap that at a later date too. Its not caused any Efi issues.

[2stroke4stroke]

I suppose I tend to Solarflares viewpoint generally as regards buying a finely honed machine then trying to make it something it isn't. Even in the context of limited bikes on the market designed to suit the real abilities of many riders, including me may I say.

However, with specific regard to the Vertigo, surely one of the benefits of sophisticated EFI is the ability to adjust the response of the machine to suit the rider by programming rather than messing about with the fundamentals of the motor.  Head inserts? Base gaskets?  If these achieved any significant effect then the ECU would probably need reprogrammed anyway to cope with the changed parameters, so best to start with reprogramming.  It would be nice to think that the manufacturer of the dearest and most sophisticated two stroke on the market would be interested in providing either info or programming to purchasers.

[jonnyjibs]

Thanks for your concern over whether I should “mess” with my bike or not, I didn’t necessarily intend to alter my bike. As you can see from the post it wasn’t specific to a certain cc, more just a general query as to whether anyone had tried it and what effect it has? I had basically been riding back to back a very-very soft bike along with my 250 & it was a thought that perhaps people have altered motors above what the fixed maps offer? It seems fairly common amongst other non FI marques. 

Vertigo UK sell both high and low compression heads (but only for the 300) also a flywheel weight kit which I presume fits both cc. I’d be interested to know how you find yours “theluckyone”. Might just be me but I find the engine braking effect (possibly from the FI) greater on my Vertigo than on any previous 2 strokes I’ve ridden, presumably this would lessen with the flywheel weight as well as slowing the ability to rev up

[baldilocks]

Do we need to ridicule ?

As Jimmy points out every bike produced is a compromise. Before my TRS my favourite bike was a 280 gg but I'd always fit a flywheel weight. It still had a lot more torque than a standard 250 gas gas. For me a 280 with a flywheel weight was ideal. 

And while I'm on many infinitely more capable riders than me still tune their bikes to make them softer. Dan Thorpe would be a good example. Just pop along and tell a multi national trial winner he should stop kidding himself buying 300s and get a 250 or 125 or whatever @Solarflares would recommend. I'd think Dan knows exactly what he's doing and over time has a set up that suits him.

Take whatever std bike you find is nearest to your needs and then adjust it if you want. The 280 TRS I have is std apart from the carb slide. If somebody wants to calm down a vertigo, given they don't make a 125 it's a perfectly reasonable question. 

[scifi]

I think the main problem with wild two strokes, is that the exhaust is styled to be an expansion chamber, which gives the engine a peaky power curve.

So if you want to dull it down a bit, then look at changing the exhaust system....  Maybe start by welding a washer over the pipe where it fits onto the exhaust port...!

In the days of Villiers and Bultaco powered bikes, we used to be able to wheelie any trials bike for hundred of yards because the power delivery was so predictable.  Try that with a modern trials bike and it will depart from you, with a mind of its own.

.

[baldilocks]

8 hours ago, scifi said:

I think the main problem with wild two strokes, is that the exhaust is styled to be an expansion chamber, which gives the engine a peaky power curve.

So if you want to dull it down a bit, then look at changing the exhaust system....  Maybe start by welding a washer over the pipe where it fits onto the exhaust port...!

In the days of Villiers and Bultaco powered bikes, we used to be able to wheelie any trials bike for hundred of yards because the power delivery was so predictable.  Try that with a modern trials bike and it will depart from you, with a mind of its own.

.

I think it depends on the ability of the rider. Someone has recently wheelied round the TT course. Not sure if the bike had a flywheel weight though.....

[theluckyone]

So fitted flywheel weight, rode trial. The bike seemed better to me and I didn't stall it once, something I had done in previous trials. I felt it was better when rolling off and coasting over stuff like slippy rocks and roots. I was happier with my result than the previous few trials. Add all this together and I'm pleased with my modest attempt at fine tuning a bike to my preferences. I don't think I'll change the throttle to slow action as I already have that feature as standard in my age group.

[scifi]

It was highly modified....

 

[lineaway]

 The gyro on the front wheel and the rear sets made it pretty easy for anybody to go the first mile. But still very hard to do.

[breagh]

Hi the luckyone, here's my take on your problem. I find most modern bikes too high geared which forces you to ride on the clutch rather than use the throttle. This is fine if your clutch control is good but the bikes "run away" with most beginners so everything's happening too fast.

I can't comment on the Vertigo but recently I've tried New Scorpas/TRS/Sherco and I would have to gear them down to be comfortable..

I'm sure plenty veterans like myself find this the case. 

[baldilocks]

I' m 50 next month and I've geared my TRS up ?

[peterb]

Baldilocks, you're still a young lad, I agree with breagh and have always geared down my bikes, GG, Ossa, JGAS and Vertigo always run 44 rear and 10 front, I like to go slow up the becks.

Regards the softening/tuning, I watched Jeroni Fajardo practising on his Vertigo in December, where he was swapping different flywheel weights, he seemed to be going ok. Just trying out a low comp head in my 300 Vertigo but not yet over sections so I can't comment. A good friend is using the same low comp head in his 300 and prefers this set up to standard, more manageable at low revs. Bye, Peter B.

[haysy]

13 hours ago, baldilocks said:

I' m 50 next month and I've geared my TRS up ?

You sure that's not 60? 

[Trials124]

Hi 

if you turn up the idle speed on a vertigo it doesn’t shut off as quick , runs on 

just a thought