peterb Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 I agree with heffergm that Grattarola is not to blame. It is wrong for the observer to change his observed score due to outside interference, I hope that the FIM listen to reason and revert the score back to what was initially given, that would be the correct and just act to do. Bye, Peter B. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 3 hours ago, worlez said: What has bike development got to do with this situation in any way?? Everything, actually ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 3 hours ago, heffergm said: Not all of us want 1972 back. All the really successful sports I can think of are basically unchanged from conception. And why 1972, was that when trials started ? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heffergm Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 I meant the riding style. If you really think modern trials should just be the ssdt, we're never going to get along Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, heffergm said: I meant the riding style. If you really think modern trials should just be the ssdt, we're never going to get along Se la vie. ? ???? ? Edited September 22, 2018 by b40rt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroke4stroke Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 36 minutes ago, heffergm said: I meant the riding style. If you really think modern trials should just be the ssdt, we're never going to get along Quite, but we seem to be struggling to get worthwhile numbers of riders to do WTC whereas the SSDT gets about 50% (or is it more?) entries than it can accept, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, 2stroke4stroke said: Quite, but we seem to be struggling to get worthwhile numbers of riders to do WTC whereas the SSDT gets about 50% (or is it more?) entries than it can accept, Thats exactly it. There used to be a day that a good national level rider could ride a world round, and when the world round came to your country you had at least 10-20 wild cards enter. The trials were every bit as hard if not harder, but werent overly dangerous. Now they are in some cases easier (relative to the bike), but 10 times as dangerous. A WTC trial in the past you could have had martin lampkin winning on close to a 100, and some local expert rider riding the same trial and still managing to finish! Nowadays Toni could ride a trial clean and a good local expert rider would be shipped away in an ambulance! Dont tell me trials in the 70s and 80s werent better than they are now!!! All you have to look at is the number of trials bikes being sold Edited September 22, 2018 by faussy 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Ok,ok Grattanolas not that bad but I would like to point out that Michael Brown lost the BTC a few years back after a similar incident. Moving on there's been little attempt to limit trials bikes and what we have now is an extreme sport at the top end which only a select few can do. The gulf between riding abilities is greatly amplified by modern machinery and we need as many classes/routes as riders. It used to be so simple,now you can't even work out what class/route or even what the rules are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted September 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 22 hours ago, b40rt said: I think breagh is suggesting that tyres should be smaller, Sammy Miller also suggested this ? sammy said this 20 years ago ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted September 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 3 hours ago, breagh said: Ok,ok Grattanolas not that bad but I would like to point out that Michael Brown lost the BTC a few years back after a similar incident. Moving on there's been little attempt to limit trials bikes and what we have now is an extreme sport at the top end which only a select few can do. The gulf between riding abilities is greatly amplified by modern machinery and we need as many classes/routes as riders. It used to be so simple,now you can't even work out what class/route or even what the rules are. To say lets go back in time and do it like the 70's 80's or whatever is naive in the extreme. Nothing will ever bring back trials bike sale to any level of even 20 % of the 70's, theres just too many other things to do and motorcyling isnt even a thing for the vast majority of youngsters. The fundamental thing is that a novice first time rider is not capable of anymore than they were 40 years ago, regardless of the improvements in bikes over the same time. What has improved year on year is the standard of the top guys. This is why we have so many routes even in club trials. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, nigel dabster said: Got sidetracked but does anyone know when the FIM will look at this incident? Which one, the one this thread is named after or the tyres on our bikes? ? I imagine it shouldn't take long, I guess all they really have to do is track down that observer and ask him why he changed his mind. Anyone know if he's on these forums? ? Edited September 23, 2018 by faussy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canario Posted September 24, 2018 Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 On 21.9.2018 at 2:01 AM, lineaway said: Hate to tell you guys, but if you think his hopping side ways on that rock was a five you are mistaken. That will not be overturned. He never stopped motion. That is the whole problem. When they went to these rules years ago they mistakenly called it no stop. It has never been no stop as you have known it. It is no motion. FIM Trial Regulations (as of 26 July 2018): Quote Definition of failure: [...] - The machine ceases to move in a forward direction relative to the course. [...] Therefore, I would state that hopping side ways on that rock is a five. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted September 25, 2018 Report Share Posted September 25, 2018 Watch all the video from the TDN and all the 2018 season. Hopping sideways is not going backwards. Same as you can turn in any direction as long as you do not cross your tracks. Been scoring long? In fact going backwards happens in modern, no stop and vintage all the time as long as the bike is going forward to go backwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa325 Posted September 25, 2018 Report Share Posted September 25, 2018 Maybe the fact that a World Championship has been decided by a volunteers interpretation of the non stop rule may cause the FIM to do something. You can't ride modern sections, particularly at the world championship level, without hoping the bike and after watching the facebook live feeds as well as the various youtube videos this year I am pretty sure you could five nearly every rider on most of the clips I have seen, if you were pedantic.The observer and rider are more concerned if they are going to be pinged for stopping rather than they are about cleaning the section.I for one would be reluctant to be an observer in a world round, with any decision you make regarding this crazy rule being subject to scrutiny by the Rider, Team, Officials, and the Public and that's before someone puts it on youtube.The stop/nonstop is way too difficult to police with consistency, and observers have different levels of tolerance as to what they will allow, its a crazy situation to have for a World Championship. The old 90 second stop rule was way better for everyone concerned.I really feel sorry for everyone involved in this, the observer, Toby and Matteo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkybarkidtech Posted September 25, 2018 Report Share Posted September 25, 2018 This thread actually makes me laugh. How many of you were there? How many of you actually know the situation? my guess is none. The whole dispute isn't about Marcelli stopping. He took the marker out. Then the observer blew for a 5. Which then certain country men booed the observer and officials from the same country got involved and hounded him until he changed the decision. THIS IS WHERE THE ISSUE IS. This is not Grattarolas fault nor is it Toby's. Just be proud of how professional the situation is been dealt with. I know the riders and they both are ashamed as how this has ended. So instead of been keyboard warriors just be grateful that maybe something might change in trials. But I hope not for the worst as this has brought so many new faces to the TRIALGP paddock making trials more accessible to riders and spectators. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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