Toby Martyn

[lineaway]

21 hours ago, lineaway said:

Watch all the video from  the TDN and all the 2018 season. Hopping sideways is not going backwards. Same as you can turn in any direction as long as you do not cross your tracks. Been scoring long? In fact going backwards happens in modern, no stop and vintage all the time as long as the bike is going forward to go backwards. 

 All right this came out a little confusing. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TRAVEL FORWARD IN ANY SECTION! If the section has room, you can go all the way back to the beginning as long as you do not cross your tracks as long as you continue in motion. A lot of the World round sections are set very wide. You can use the whole thing from ribbon to ribbon. I think the UK riders might be a little confused with line of intent and the use of very narrow sections that are usually ridden. 

 Another thing people do not understand is why the riders will go so slow that they seem like they stop again and again. They are only allowed one minder in a section. They creep along to let their poor worn out minder get to the next obstacle again and again.

 Here is another rule in the World Round most don`t get. In theory you can drag your foot from beginning to the end of the section and that is a one.  Would be pretty hard to do, but that is a rule. 

 Scoring with these rules is not as hard as you people with  stuck in the 60`s definition of no stop. They should not of ever called in no stop, it`s more like no clock so keep some movement going. By the way I have scored in 2013 and 2017 under these rules and gladly do it again.

 P.S> Yes I do understand this thread is actually about a call that was politically changed by pressure. Good, bad or indifferent. It sucked for Toby.

Edited September 25, 2018 by lineaway

[lineaway]

1 hour ago, oni nou said:

He didn't fare well with my observing as he stopped four times and went backwards all in the space of about 7 seconds.

 Raga never stopped, there was movement the whole time. Granted his rear tire stopped once, but his front tire kept forward motion relative to the course. 

 I scored a section in 2013 that Raga was cleaning and Bou was failing. On Raga`s third ride, I had to give him a five, even though he thought he cleaned it. Adam ran down to me screaming, no fair, no fair. I just pointed to the marker still in the air his rear tire sent flying. Scoring is easy.

[oni nou]

1 hour ago, lineaway said:

 Raga never stopped, there was movement the whole time. Granted his rear tire stopped once, but his front tire kept forward motion relative to the course. 

 I scored a section in 2013 that Raga was cleaning and Bou was failing. On Raga`s third ride, I had to give him a five, even though he thought he cleaned it. Adam ran down to me screaming, no fair, no fair. I just pointed to the marker still in the air his rear tire sent flying. Scoring is easy.

At 1m 11s Raga's rear wheel turns anti clockwise [looking at the bike from the side that it appears in the video] or backwards...... if his wheel is touching the ground as it is then unless he has a reverse gear and the bike is skidding forwards[which he has not and it is not] then that means the bike is not going forward at the moment that the wheel turns anti clockwise and if that is the case then the bike must be stationary or going backwards.the observer saw this and he blows the whistle for a five only a moment after this had happened.

I agree there was always movement his arms and legs were moving etc but I thought we had already established that the FIM rule is that the machine must not cease to move in a forward direction relative to the course this obviously being a forward direction starting from the section start markers toward the next two markers  and so on until the bike passes through the section ends markers.

I am with heffergm on this because everyone seems to have differing interpretations of what stop and forward means and so the answer is to go back to anything goes rules  including reversing and hopping sideways etc and have sections that take 1 minute 30 seconds [or possibly upto 2 mins to complete] as before.

Edited September 26, 2018 by oni nou

[lineaway]

 Go back and look at it again from only the initial video, not the replay. The spokes stopping does not matter, the front end was in constant motion the whole time. Just like a nose wheelie, just because the front seems to stop for a split second the rest of the bike never stops moving. And no you do not to have forward motion towards the markers, you guys are too tightly wound.

[lineaway]

 Bou must of five`d this 5 times depending on your mind.

 

[oni nou]

5 hours ago, lineaway said:

 Go back and look at it again from only the initial video, not the replay. The spokes stopping does not matter, the front end was in constant motion the whole time. Just like a nose wheelie, just because the front seems to stop for a split second the rest of the bike never stops moving. And no you do not to have forward motion towards the markers, you guys are too tightly wound.

I am very confused by the spokes stopping which would mean the wheels would not be turning which would mean that the bike would be stopped.  

I think that you are saying that the rules allow a rider to hop the bike up and down on the spot for any amount of time without penalty because the bike will be in motion and that the bike can make a 180 degree turn in a section and ride back where it just came from and in a direction that is moving in the opposite direction from the next set of markers that are to be passed through/between  without penalty.........obviously in certain cases this will be the way the path through the section  takes the rider and machine but  I am not referring to that type of situation.    

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by oni nou

[oni nou]

19 minutes ago, lineaway said:

 Bou must of five`d this 5 times depending on your mind.

 

Going by the FIM rule then he fived it a lot more than five times ......but going by rules that have been made up by observers then he cleaned it. ...personally I go with the he cleaned it and if I observed a World round I would mark the riders as most observers do and give the riders 3 seconds stopping time allowance before receiving a penalty those 3 seconds would be  counted on a digital watch or no doubt all the riders would end up with fives on every lap of my section.

Edited September 26, 2018 by oni nou

[faussy]

Who is actually the head of the trials division in the FIM? Is his name Sepp Blatter?

Regarding the results in Italy.... I take it a protest was lodged? And if so, if it was rejected, then i doubt we will here anything from the sport7 interjection

On 17/09/2018 at 5:47 PM, baldilocks said:

Under ACU rules you cannot protest another riders score. Anyone know if FIM is the same ?

I think all it says is something along the lines of "any person (or gorup of persons including rider, sponsor or even manufacturer) that holds an FIM licence affected by a decision under the authority of the FIM has the right to protest against that decision, except in the case of a statement of fact"

So even if that decision is another riders score, so long as it affects you, are are allowed to protest it.

I dont know the ACU rules, but id be very surprised if that is the case

Edited September 26, 2018 by faussy

[smurfy]

2 hours ago, faussy said:

Who is actually the head of the trials division in the FIM? Is his name Sepp Blatter?

Regarding the results in Italy.... I take it a protest was lodged? And if so, if it was rejected, then i doubt we will here anything from the sport7 interjection

I think all it says is something along the lines of "any person (or gorup of persons including rider, sponsor or even manufacturer) that holds an FIM licence affected by a decision under the authority of the FIM has the right to protest against that decision, except in the case of a statement of fact"

So even if that decision is another riders score, so long as it affects you, are are allowed to protest it.

I dont know the ACU rules, but id be very surprised if that is the case

As the T2 championship was determined by this, I'm kinda guessing that if the FIM wanted to do the right thing it would have been done swiftly, the lack of any further FIM or sport 7 statement yet speaks volumes.

[Canario]

"Interesting" that observers can ignore the FIM rules and make their own ones. No wonder, that at the end someone like Toby Martyn loses the title because of an observer who marked 99,9% with his own relaxed rules and then one single decision at the right time strictly according to the FIM rules.

[heffergm]

Yeah. No doubt all the observers out there volunteering their time are out to destroy the sport.

[heffergm]

16 hours ago, lineaway said:

 Bou must of five`d this 5 times depending on your mind.

 

I will take this moment to mention that I get to ride there every week... That is all

[b40rt]

47 minutes ago, heffergm said:

Yeah. No doubt all the observers out there volunteering their time are out to destroy the sport.

??? You admitted earlier that you made up the rules to your interpretation of how they " should" be. 

[lineaway]

3 hours ago, Canario said:

"Interesting" that observers can ignore the FIM rules and make their own ones. No wonder, that at the end someone like Toby Martyn loses the title because of an observer who marked 99,9% with his own relaxed rules and then one single decision at the right time strictly according to the FIM rules.

 I think you are confused on what happened. It appears the scorer made the right call. Which Toby needed. Not the other way around.

 PS nobody is making up rules. Have you been to a scorers meeting at the World level?

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by lineaway

[trapezeartist]

18 hours ago, oni nou said:

Going by the FIM rule then he fived it a lot more than five times ......but going by rules that have been made up by observers then he cleaned it. ...personally I go with the he cleaned it and if I observed a World round I would mark the riders as most observers do and give the riders 3 seconds stopping time allowance before receiving a penalty those 3 seconds would be  counted on a digital watch or no doubt all the riders would end up with fives on every lap of my section.

At World level I'm not really bothered whether it is "no stop" or "stop allowed" as long as the rules are clear and rigorously enforced. The current problem is the failure to mark according to the rules. If that was done, the riders would very quickly fall into line. I suggested a similar "3 second" rule in another thread, but on reflection I think it has many similar problems to the existing situation. If a rider stopped (for less than 3 seconds), then moved a couple of inches and stopped again, that would reset the timer. While hopping about in an awkward space, that could happen many times before the rider goes for it proper.