Toby Martyn

[faussy]

20 minutes ago, heffergm said:

I still disagree (about him stopping). Be that as it may, I do agree that not respecting the observer's decision is a little ridiculous. I do however find them to be separate issues.

They are exactly the same issue, because they are intervening on said issue!!! Its a lot easier to say he stopped, than saying he kept moving. And guess what the official cameraman had it all on video!! Total joke. Ive yet to see a football referee decision be overturned and some of them are absolutely ridiculous decisions.

This was a decently respectable observing decision and it gets overturned, and it decided a championship

Edited September 20, 2018 by faussy

[faussy]

22 minutes ago, heffergm said:

Given the sequence of events though, I can't say I understand all the BS going around about this somehow coming down anything related to Italian observers, etc. Presumably the FIM officials are the same officials that are at every event. The (presumably italian) observer made a call in Toby's favor and got stuffed by the FIM. Well, there you go... blame the FIM. You can leave the national favoritism theory at the door.

This i agree with, although i would add that the italian crowd obviously berated the observer over a decision on a spanish rider (who should be of no interest to them) and in a way brought about the overturning

Edited September 20, 2018 by faussy

[Andy]

Statement from Sport7:

As a result of events that occurred during the closing stages of TrialGP Italy last Sunday, Sport7 as the promoters of the FIM Trial World Championship has made the following statement:

Sport7 is fully aware of the events that unfolded at section fifteen on the second and final lap of the TrialGP Italy event held at the Metzeler Offroad Park at Pietramurata Di Dro last Sunday 16th September and that have been widely reported post event.

Sport7 is also aware of the consequences of this event that ultimately determined the outcome of the 2018 FIM Trial2 World Championship.

Having now fully reviewed the circumstances that surrounded these events and supporting evidence, Sport7 have referred the matter back to the FIM for urgent and further investigation to ensure that the correct processes were duly followed.

Sport7 would like to clarify that members of their staff who witnessed the incident first hand along with many other bystanders, are in no doubt that an event official was subjected to external influences As a direct result of unauthorised interventions the official latterly decided to alter what was originally a proper and correct sporting decision that was consistent with his previous decisions throughout the event, without real reason to do so.

Sport7 can in no way excuse or ignore what has occurred and it is clear that outside influencing of an event official is one of the most serious matters that can take place inside any sporting event.

Whilst Sport7 is not directly responsible for sporting matters, they will not tolerate such behaviour as it has put the overall integrity of the series in question and tarnished the image of the same, despite having worked tirelessly over the last two seasons to deliver a professional and unprejudiced championship.

Sport7 is totally committed to supporting the FIM in their investigation, and therefore will not make any further comment until this process has been completed.

[Andy]

47 minutes ago, faussy said:

This i agree with, although i would add that the italian crowd obviously berated the observer over a decision on a spanish rider (who should be of no interest to them) and in a way brought about the overturning

You are correct in saying he SHOULD be of no interest to them, but now with people having the ability to follow results live, as they happen, the crowd would have been only too aware that if the five for Marcelli stood then Toby would have finished second on the day and won the Championship, pushing out their own Grattarola.

[chaser]

Grattarola has a foot on the rock at 11.07 in the video but was given a clean.

[jonnyc21]

57 minutes ago, chaser said:

Grattarola has a foot on the rock at 11.07 in the video but was given a clean.

Unlike the 5 that got changed to a clean this one could just have been missed by mistake... still feels painful when you consider the other though...

[jonnyc21]

11 hours ago, b40rt said:

Videos are fine, they have been edited down. Watching a rider balancing in a section discussing lines, and adjusting position ad nauseam, not so exciting ?

Imagine actually riding in a trial like this, not for me ....

Your time limit is fixed, max out and you have your 5... Better than the current rules in my opinion.  

But I see your point, if a large number of the riders do this it makes everything feel slow.  

[Monty Wise One]

I’ve seen the reaction of the crowd too. Trials fans usually know their stuff and Marcelli definitely stopped or didn’t make progress. The observer looked frustrated after his decision was overturned. 

[Andy]

12 minutes ago, Monty Wise One said:

I’ve seen the reaction of the crowd too. Trials fans usually know their stuff and Marcelli definitely stopped or didn’t make progress. The observer looked frustrated after his decision was overturned. 

The only person who overturned the observer's decision was himself:

1. The Observer blows his whistle and gives Marcelli a five.

2. The crowd know that five means Martyn wins the Championship and not Italian, Grattarola and they go wild.

3. The Observer, under pressure from the crowd, reverses his decision, Grattarola is champion and the Observer doesn't find a horse's head in his bed.

[heffergm]

26 minutes ago, Andy said:

The only person who overturned the observer's decision was himself:

1. The Observer blows his whistle and gives Marcelli a five.

2. The crowd know that five means Martyn wins the Championship and not Italian, Grattarola and they go wild.

3. The Observer, under pressure from the crowd, reverses his decision, Grattarola is champion and the Observer doesn't find a horse's head in his bed.

Well that's a different deal then. I can't say I blame him though. He's a volunteer and doesn't really want to be lynched. This is why football referees are professionals, they at least have some skin in the game. They can't go blowing calls based on biases or crowd reaction without losing their livelihood.

I feel horrible for the guy. Anyone here who's checked a national or world round (I have) knows that there's a ton of pressure. It's not fun. Riders yelling at you is bad enough, having the crowd want your head is a bit over the top.

I still don't think Marcelli stopped, but per the Sport7 press release, they mention the initial call for a stop was consistent with his scoring throughout the day, so good enough for me. Full disclosure, I sport an Italian passport

Edited September 20, 2018 by heffergm

[hgas]

So what did the fim say to the observer? I’m glad you cleared that up Andy because I’ve heard 2 story’s 1:the fim made him change his mind and 2:he changed his own mind , why didn’t the fim take his first call and make the decision stand instead of letting him change it? The World Series has been a revelation since sport 7 took over but this is embarrassing and a complete and utter farce 

[nigel dabster]

4 hours ago, Andy said:

You are correct in saying he SHOULD be of no interest to them, but now with people having the ability to follow results live, as they happen, the crowd would have been only too aware that if the five for Marcelli stood then Toby would have finished second on the day and won the Championship, pushing out their own Grattarola.

The crowd were absolutely aware because the pa announcer told them the situation.

[nigel dabster]

2 hours ago, heffergm said:

Well that's a different deal then. I can't say I blame him though. He's a volunteer and doesn't really want to be lynched. This is why football referees are professionals, they at least have some skin in the game. They can't go blowing calls based on biases or crowd reaction without losing their livelihood.

I feel horrible for the guy. Anyone here who's checked a national or world round (I have) knows that there's a ton of pressure. It's not fun. Riders yelling at you is bad enough, having the crowd want your head is a bit over the top.

I still don't think Marcelli stopped, but per the Sport7 press release, they mention the initial call for a stop was consistent with his scoring throughout the day, so good enough for me. Full disclosure, I sport an Italian passport

The observer was marking these stops as stops all day.

[on it]

 Is the problems with world trials caused  because it is a amature sport run for professionals by amatures  ?

[heffergm]

Well, the observers are (generally) all amateurs at best. A lot of the time they're just friends and family of amateur trials riders with little trials experience at all. Whether that's good or bad at the top level would bear some discussion. I think it's somewhat moot since it's unlikely that paying 12 (probably more like 20) professional observers to fly around the world is viable (if it was, I suspect they'd be doing it already). For indoor it's easy, you just need one guy. 

Edited September 20, 2018 by heffergm