Toby Martyn

[Canario]

6 hours ago, lineaway said:

Watch all the video from  the TDN and all the 2018 season. Hopping sideways is not going backwards. [...]

Backwards is again one step further. The machine should/must not cease to move in a forward direction relative to the course. My impression is, that this rule doesn't leave much room for interpetations.

 

Edit: Recalled this demonstration video from the FIM regarding No stop rule:

--> No stop video

Edited September 25, 2018 by Canario

[Canario]

On 20.9.2018 at 5:35 PM, Andy said:

Statement from Sport7:

As a result of events that occurred during the closing stages of TrialGP Italy last Sunday, Sport7 as the promoters of the FIM Trial World Championship has made the following statement:
[...]

Interesting: Yesterday, this statement could be found at the Trial GP website. Now, it seems to be removed. Let the dust settle on it...

[oni nou]

2 hours ago, Canario said:

Backwards is again one step further. The machine should/must not cease to move in a forward direction relative to the course. My impression is, that this rule doesn't leave much room for interpetations.

 

Edit: Recalled this demonstration video from the FIM regarding No stop rule:

--> No stop video

Those are just the old rules, they could not be bothered to make the new video for the revised rules which is strange because for the revised rules video all they had to do was change all the red crosses in red boxes to green ticks in red boxes in that video ..not that much work and cost I would not have thought.

Edited September 25, 2018 by oni nou

[lineaway]

3 hours ago, milkybarkidtech said:

This thread actually makes me laugh. 

 

How many of you were there? How many of you actually know the situation? my guess is none. 

 

The whole dispute isn't about Marcelli stopping. He took the marker out. Then the observer blew for a 5. Which then certain country men booed the observer and officials from the same country got involved and hounded him until he changed the decision.  THIS IS WHERE THE ISSUE IS. 

 

This is not Grattarolas fault nor is it Toby's.  Just be proud of how professional the situation is been dealt with. I know the riders and they both are ashamed as how this has ended. 

 

So instead of been keyboard warriors just be grateful that maybe something might change in trials. But I hope not for the worst as this has brought so many new faces to the TRIALGP paddock making trials more accessible to riders and spectators.

 

 

Interestingly a certain sponsor had banners around the whole section. And the whole park for that matter. Talk about peer pressure on the scorer.

[Canario]

 

38 minutes ago, oni nou said:

Those are just the old rules, they could not be bothered to make the new video for the revised rules which is strange because for the revised rules video all they had to do was change all the red crosses in red boxes to green ticks in red boxes in that video ..not that much work and cost I would not have thought.

 

Nevertheless, the video still matches exactly with the concerning text passage within the FIM Trial Regulations as of July 25th 2018 (Page 88):

-> Link

 

The rule "The machine ceases to move in a forward direction relative to the course." was also written down in the 2013 and 2014 FIM regulations. Where did you see the revision of the "No Stop rule" in the time window between 2013 and today?

 

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Canario

[b40rt]

9 hours ago, milkybarkidtech said:

This thread actually makes me laugh. 

 

How many of you were there? How many of you actually know the situation? my guess is none. 

 

The whole dispute isn't about Marcelli stopping. He took the marker out. Then the observer blew for a 5. Which then certain country men booed the observer and officials from the same country got involved and hounded him until he changed the decision.  THIS IS WHERE THE ISSUE IS. 

 

This is not Grattarolas fault nor is it Toby's.  Just be proud of how professional the situation is been dealt with. I know the riders and they both are ashamed as how this has ended. 

 

So instead of been keyboard warriors just be grateful that maybe something might change in trials. But I hope not for the worst as this has brought so many new faces to the TRIALGP paddock making trials more accessible to riders and spectators.

 

 

Said the keyboard warrior. .....

[neils on wheels]

15 hours ago, lineaway said:

In fact going backwards happens in modern, no stop and vintage all the time as long as the bike is going forward to go backwards. 

The relevance of posts about 1970s trials to Toby Martin and the recent 2018 Italian world round have confused me and now we are 'going forward to go backwards', has this forum entered a space-time continuum?

[b40rt]

It's physics, but not as we know it !

[oni nou]

9 hours ago, Canario said:

 

 

Nevertheless, the video still matches exactly with the concerning text passage within the FIM Trial Regulations as of July 25th 2018 (Page 88):

-> Link

 

The rule "The machine ceases to move in a forward direction relative to the course." was also written down in the 2013 and 2014 FIM regulations. Where did you see the revision of the "No Stop rule" in the time window between 2013 and today?

 

 

I see the revision to the rules being put into use everytime I watch a video of a TrialGP round and see the score card of zero marks lifted above an observers head after having just watched the riders machine cease to move in a forward direction relative to the course around 15 times per section ......this revision is not written in the regulations it has just been adopted universally by observers as they realise that obviously the riders would become disheartened if the letter of the rules was upheld regarding non stop and they would be receive 5 marks for 90% of the sections ridden............As has already been said before the sections are set as if they were for a stop allowed event and need to be set with the idea that riders are not allowed to stop.

[Canario]

Hi oni nou,

thank you for your statements. Now I see and understand your point.

Practice "outdated" theorie (what eventually opens some additional room for cheating).

 

[trapezeartist]

1 hour ago, oni nou said:

I see the revision to the rules being put into use everytime I watch a video of a TrialGP round and see the score card of zero marks lifted above an observers head after having just watched the riders machine cease to move in a forward direction relative to the course around 15 times per section ......this revision is not written in the regulations it has just been adopted universally by observers as they realise that obviously the riders would become disheartened if the letter of the rules was upheld regarding non stop and they would be receive 5 marks for 90% of the sections ridden............As has already been said before the sections are set as if they were for a stop allowed event and need to be set with the idea that riders are not allowed to stop.

So it just needs some banging of heads together. The FIM has to tell everyone at the beginning of the 2019 season that the no-stop rule is to be strictly enforced. Course setters must allow for that. Riders must obey it. Observers must mark accordingly. Send everyone a copy of that video to illustrate the point.

There may be a bit of blood-letting at the first round if some riders can't quite believe it really is going to be enforced. But after that, everyone would understand and settle down.

Edited September 25, 2018 by trapezeartist

[heffergm]

Lol. That was what was supposed to happen when the rule was first instituted. It didn't, and its been a steady backpedaling from adhering to it in any strict manner. And here we are. If you really want to try again, you must be the eternal optimist (which to be honest would be a welcome relief around here).

Personally I don't see bothering. I don't want no stop rules, I want modern riding in modern sections. I also don't want the onus of deciding what is and isn't a stop on the checkers, because I think it's too difficult a call to make with any sort of consistency, which is largely in my opinion what has led to the current state of 'soft observance' of the no stop rule. That, and the fact that modern riding means stopping, and I'm not even talking for hits. 

Here's a good one: https://youtu.be/nbiVKXKolLU?t=46s

Did he stop? Didn't he stop? That's not even the point. The point is, WHO THE EFF CARES if he stopped? I sure don't. Run the same sections with a 90 second time limit. Forward, backwards, left, right... makes no difference to me if you make your gates and don't cross your line.

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by heffergm

[oni nou]

37 minutes ago, heffergm said:

Lol. That was what was supposed to happen when the rule was first instituted. It didn't, and its been a steady backpedaling from adhering to it in any strict manner. And here we are. If you really want to try again, you must be the eternal optimist (which to be honest would be a welcome relief around here).

Personally I don't see bothering. I don't want no stop rules, I want modern riding in modern sections. I also don't want the onus of deciding what is and isn't a stop on the checkers, because I think it's too difficult a call to make with any sort of consistency, which is largely in my opinion what has led to the current state of 'soft observance' of the no stop rule.

Here's a good one: https://youtu.be/nbiVKXKolLU?t=46s

Did he stop? Didn't he stop? That's not even the point. The point is, WHO THE EFF CARES if he stopped? I sure don't.

 

He didn't fare well with my observing as he stopped four times and went backwards all in the space of about 7 seconds.

Edited September 25, 2018 by oni nou

[smurfy]

On 20/09/2018 at 4:35 PM, Andy said:

Statement from Sport7:

As a result of events that occurred during the closing stages of TrialGP Italy last Sunday, Sport7 as the promoters of the FIM Trial World Championship has made the following statement:

Sport7 is fully aware of the events that unfolded at section fifteen on the second and final lap of the TrialGP Italy event held at the Metzeler Offroad Park at Pietramurata Di Dro last Sunday 16th September and that have been widely reported post event.

Sport7 is also aware of the consequences of this event that ultimately determined the outcome of the 2018 FIM Trial2 World Championship.

Having now fully reviewed the circumstances that surrounded these events and supporting evidence, Sport7 have referred the matter back to the FIM for urgent and further investigation to ensure that the correct processes were duly followed.

Sport7 would like to clarify that members of their staff who witnessed the incident first hand along with many other bystanders, are in no doubt that an event official was subjected to external influences As a direct result of unauthorised interventions the official latterly decided to alter what was originally a proper and correct sporting decision that was consistent with his previous decisions throughout the event, without real reason to do so.

Sport7 can in no way excuse or ignore what has occurred and it is clear that outside influencing of an event official is one of the most serious matters that can take place inside any sporting event.

Whilst Sport7 is not directly responsible for sporting matters, they will not tolerate such behaviour as it has put the overall integrity of the series in question and tarnished the image of the same, despite having worked tirelessly over the last two seasons to deliver a professional and unprejudiced championship.

Sport7 is totally committed to supporting the FIM in their investigation, and therefore will not make any further comment until this process has been completed.

Good call sport7!!!!

But does Anyone know when/if this investigation will be concluded? 

[heffergm]

Sport 7 asked that it be investigated. The rest is promoter public relations speak. I've not heard that the FIM is in fact doing anything.