Whats gone wrong with Trials.

[section swept]

8 minutes ago, Twinshockandy said:

Some good, interesting idea's to ponder; 

Thank you Twinshockandy?

[breagh]

Hi SS, have to say anything that makes Trials more complicated wouldn't get my vote. It's bad enough with multi classes multi routes and a complex scoring system.

Certainly wouldn't want to see a grading system or anything that brings in more classes and riding on the road .

I would say is the trouble with most Trials is they try to please everyone and it doesn't work.

Our club run easy trials which is really a fun route with a few extra gates for the more adventurous .There's no pretence about it being for the better riders and it works for about 70% of the riders out there.

Sometimes there's no awards and mostly there self scoring and it works to get riders out there.

It's more a battle of concentration than riding ability so this negates any need for grading riders anyone could win and does.

I would say though if you're going to run a "serious " trial this doesn't work, it's got to be observed,difficult, and not for the casual rider.

   .

[turbofurball]

Love easy trials, just to get out and ride a bit, push myself to try some stuff I'm not sure about, and not worry about getting in the way of serious competitors when I'm having trouble extracting myself and my bike from a muddy situation.

But I'm well aware I'm not the average trials rider, lol

[on it]

5 hours ago, breagh said:

would say though if you're going to run a "serious " trial this doesn't work, it's got to be observed,difficult, and not for the casual rider

This is the  problem, serious trials riders  who have worked and trained hard  at it to get better and then casual rider who dont  , Is the solution have FUN only trials and REAL trials  and  separate them. This would cut down on number of courses laid out (its hard at times to find hard/easy routes in 1 section) & riders know what they type of trial they are going to

[oni nou]

2 hours ago, on it said:

This is the  problem, serious trials riders  who have worked and trained hard  at it to get better and then casual rider who dont  , Is the solution have FUN only trials and REAL trials  and  separate them. This would cut down on number of courses laid out (its hard at times to find hard/easy routes in 1 section) & riders know what they type of trial they are going to

No need for change then as that is already how things are; there are dead easy trials and there are nationals and trials with usually 3 routes beginners easy and hard...I do not think there is anything wrong with trials [with exception to the no stop rule at world level ].the real problem is people not being happy about their own ability and how it fits into the way the sections at organised trials are laid out in their severity........if people do not enjoy the severity of any that are currently available then the answer is to go and set up your own club with like minded people ,find some land and and mark out the type of sections that you like to ride or you will never be satisfied.....if a person cannot ride the sections the only real answer is more practice/riding trials time....isn't that how a rider is able to ride increasingly more difficult sections.

Edited October 15, 2018 by oni nou

[trialsrider46]

37 minutes ago, oni nou said:

No need for change then as that is already how things are; there are dead easy trials and there are nationals and trials with usually 3 routes beginners easy and hard...I do not think there is anything wrong with trials [with exception to the no stop rule at world level ].the real problem is people not being happy about their own ability and how it fits into the way the sections at organised trials are laid out in their severity........if people do not enjoy the severity of any that are currently available then the answer is to go and set up your own club with like minded people ,find some land and and mark out the type of sections that you like to ride or you will never be satisfied.....if a person cannot ride the sections the only real answer is more practice/riding trials time....isn't that how a rider is able to ride increasingly more difficult sections.

I think my first comment has been lost in some of these posts. Nothing about peoples ability, it is quite the opposite, it was all about those with a greater ability riding easier routes.  Here is my first gripe, why do those with far greater ability ride white routes? In some trials you ride as Expert and 50/50 but when it suits you ride the white route and score 0 or single figure results. All this does is allow clubs to set harder sections for those of us who are not as skilled as you.

[heffergm]

It sounds like less of an issue for us here in the States than it does for you, but in general the reason really good riders here ride sections that might be 'beneath' them is simply because they're an aging population, and they don't want to get hurt riding more challenging sections. If I were 60+ I sure as hell wouldn't be taking chances, I'd be out looking to have fun. This is why we have Senior classes that are governed by a minimum age limit, as well as the option to ride as a non-competition entry, where you ride the route of your choice but aren't counted in the overall results. It lets you see how you stack up without 'getting in the way' as it were.

[b40rt]

1 hour ago, heffergm said:

It sounds like less of an issue for us here in the States than it does for you, but in general the reason really good riders here ride sections that might be 'beneath' them is simply because they're an aging population, and they don't want to get hurt riding more challenging sections. If I were 60+ I sure as hell wouldn't be taking chances, I'd be out looking to have fun. This is why we have Senior classes that are governed by a minimum age limit, as well as the option to ride as a non-competition entry, where you ride the route of your choice but aren't counted in the overall results. It lets you see how you stack up without 'getting in the way' as it were.

Good post, its not really an issue here either, think the O/P is a tragic has been.

[dan williams]

Mandatory promotion of the lower classes is a bad idea. Most of us ride for fun. Take that fun away and you have fewer riders. If somebody is riding the lower classes and whining about not getting a trophy they should work to improve. Most of the older riders can ride the harder stuff not least of all because they aren't scared of it but the endurance just isn't there for many of us to ride harder stuff all day. The fun riders pay the freight. We buy the bikes and observe and do paperwork and pay the same as the flash riders.

[Monty Don]

I think part of the problem here in the East this year is that the twin shock championships have been joined by the novices. So, twin shock ‘A’ riders ride intermediate Red/blue, twin shock ‘B’ riders ride 50/50 (red/blue and white) and novices ride white. This means they are all championship routes and therefore more challenging than a normal club trial. There are only 8 rounds however. There is a proposal for next year to drop the twin shock ‘B’ riders down to the white route as the 50/50 option can be quite daunting at some venues. ‘Not Ron’ mentioned the forum in November where this subject is on the agenda for discussion so it might be worth attending. Riders are graded in the Eastern centre and the gradings can be found on the centre website under the useful info tab. Intermediate riders always have the option (out of championship) to ride a lesser route but only compete against other intermediates doing the same thing. The new Acorns club is a great idea with the white sections set a little easier for those wishing to have a fun ride round and it also allows aspiring novices to step up a route without scaring themselves s***less. Other clubs should perhaps follow suit for non championship events. An interesting debate, seemingly less easy to sort out than Brexit!

[oni nou]

1 hour ago, trialsrider46 said:

I think my first comment has been lost in some of these posts. Nothing about peoples ability, it is quite the opposite, it was all about those with a greater ability riding easier routes.  Here is my first gripe, why do those with far greater ability ride white routes? In some trials you ride as Expert and 50/50 but when it suits you ride the white route and score 0 or single figure results. All this does is allow clubs to set harder sections for those of us who are not as skilled as you.

People ride the easier route when they are capable of riding a harder route because they want to ride but do not want to face the harder challenges that day or whenever[Too much booze the night before etc] ....if that becomes a regular occurrence and the section plotters start increasing the severity of the easier routes then that is wrong and defeats the whole purpose of different routes but the bulls always get what they want so it sounds like you either up your game or go to ride somewhere else that this does not happen.

[totty79]

What people choose to ride shouldn't matter, but making an easy route inaccessible is not a good idea.

If the top 5 score zero tough, it's their choice and they can move up if they want a challenge.

If a typical newcomer can finish on a 125 score with rider and bike in one piece it's ok. If they can't get round many will not come back.

[oni nou]

The Japanese have the same problem with the experts riding their  white route [which is marked by red flags]....and look what its like now.https://youtu.be/C5z-ORjN6Tg

[heffergm]

25 minutes ago, oni nou said:

The Japanese have the same problem with the experts riding their  white route [which is marked by red flags]....and look what its like now.https://youtu.be/C5z-ORjN6Tg

Lol

[collyolly]

What make of bike is that at 08.11 ?

I am so glad we don't use their 'Clerk of course' !