4ourtea Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 I am hoping that all you experienced 4rt guys can help me overcome a starting problem, as I'm new to this 4 stroke lark. The bike is an '06 model and had no more than about 30 hours use. The bike is fantastic and always starts no problem when cold and usually 2nd or 3rd prod when warm/hot. However, I have had the odd occassion when stalling or fiving in a section that it's then been a complete pig to start. The usual "long-prod" technique fails to bring it to life and I end up having to kick it 10 - 15 times. Its knackering and frustrating, esp. compared to the 315r as this obviously fired up as regular as clockwork and got me out of the section pronto. I haven't tampered with the tick over speed (which is still as set up when leaving the factory) and I haven't been wiring it into the laptop gizmo software as I haven't got that! Any clues or tips would be most welcome on this particular problem. Any tips or hints on other 4rt matters would be equally welcome (I have read the pages of 4rt stuff on TC). Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty-python Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 (edited) I take it that you have been putting it into neutral before starting it. You arm't supposed to start them in gear, mine is a pig to start in gear ie. in the middle of a section, when you just want to get going. When you are kicking it, use no throttle. I would also check the valves, the state of the spark plug, and if you power wash it, water can get into the connectors, check them . My mate had this happen to him last week, and couldn't get it started. He tries all the usual things, electric wise , including changing coils, resistance readings etc, before discovering the water. How we laughed four hours later,(not). Mine has recently started to be slow to start when hot, which it never used to, but i'm only talking 5-6 kicks. Edited January 8, 2006 by monty-python Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillary Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 No problem with mine, but they do start better out of gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Yup, definitely better off starting it in neutral. There is a lot of drag from the clutch when trying to start it in gear, which makes it difficult. Should generally fire up fist kick in neutral, hot or cold, although as with any bike, there will always be the odd time it takes a few attempts for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 If its new and under warranty take it back to the dealer to sort, don't start thinking your better than honda and try to mess around with things. Personally mine starts no problem in or out of gear, but absolutey no throttle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyeddie Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Mine starts better when hot with just a very small amount of throttle, maybe this is subject to tickover setting, i would agree about starting much easier in nuetral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesus sanz Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 When the engine hot stalls, it is easy to start just kicking gently one thime with half trotlhe,the engine will no start. After, kicking in the usual way, no trothle, the engine will start easily. Sorry but my english is very poor, I hope you will understand me. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masso Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 most of the guys have said it right!!!....start in neutral!!! but they failed to mention just how IMPOSSIBLE it is to get the damned thing into neutral!!.....you'd think the world's most high-tech trials bike would get easily into neutral.!!....I have been able to start mine in gear, by replacing clutch system with the 315 lever/master cylinder unit...and running automatic transmission fluid in the gear box...been hearing rumblings about a MITANI clutch....this may be interesting!! also boost your idle a tad.this really helps also, check aircleaner for a greasy,oily goop clogging up the filter, clean it .....let the thing breath !.......if still having trouble...try racing gas ..............good luck ....masso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan.p Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 I also have an 06 4RT , which i have had since november and i have just aquired the knack of starting it when hot . Mine is completely standard I haven't touched a thing and I would agree with some of the other replies. Yes it definently starts better in neutral , I can get mine to start in gear but the one thing that remains the same is ...NO THROTTLE !!! If the bike has been left for a couple of miniutes while you walk a section it may need a primeing kick or two but follow up with the longer prod with no throttle and away she goes !!! Be patient with it and give it time , once you get completely familiar with it starting will be a breeze . Hope this helps . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz thumper Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Agree with most of the posts, I have had both 05 and 06 models and had no problem.Like Eddie I have idle set very low and occasionally need to just crack the throttle open the tiniest amount when hot. It is fatal however to twist the grip open as you kick, I have seen several riders unaware that they are doing that, I personally always keep finger on the front brake which helps to stop throttle hand moving. Last but not least take the advice of checking with a dealer who has the diagnostic tool, it is possible to have a failure of one of the sensors in the throttle body or the sender unit. Is the fan cutting in and out normally? Be assured that if you are doing everything right there must be a fault somewhere, because unlike a few other fourstrokes they are not hard to start when hot even when they have been upside down. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4ourtea Posted January 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Thanks gents... what a great response to my question! I'm rally grateful for all your replies and its reassuring to know that people are happy to pass invaluable little pieces of info on. Firstly, I fully understand... - NO THROTTLE when starting !! Secondly, it would appear the general concensus is that it should be in neutral if life is to be made as easy as possible. I think this may be where I'm going wrong as the clutch drag is certainly there and you can feel a certain amount of "lag" as you kick it over. Regarding water in the electrics... I rode last years SSDT on a 315 and watched as many 4rt's as possible to see how they fared (who didn't watch!!) and I was mighty impressed with the s**t they were put through by lesser riders. Two little Japanese guys were forever up to their armpits in water and the bikes never stopped. I haven't submerged mine (yet) but in its brief life it has already seen some torrents and it hasn't coughed at all. The more I ponder, the more I think its the clutch drag. Do the 315 air filters really make a big difference, and if so, are you just fitting them straight in with no trimming or mods? Once again, thanks for all your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty-python Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 No trimming required for the filters. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dond Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 I have found that when I stall my 4RT abruptly that it will not start readily with the throttle closed. I crack the throttle (1/4 to full open) for one or two kicks, then start normally (throttle closed). Works great for mine and sure beats kicking it 10 or 15 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesus sanz Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Hello DonD, I agree, this is that I want to explain in my post, I think just one kick at half trothle, and the bike starts at the following atempt, no trothle. With this system not necessary out of gear in the 2005 bikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4ourtea Posted January 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 I was out last weekend and can confirm that the knack of starting has been well and truly sussed. With the bike in neutral, starting has been simple and been on the first kick 95 times out of a 100, and the 5 errant occassions were on second or third prod. Thanks for the advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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