Hard to start beta rev3

[Franklin9000]

Hi. New to this site, but I've read forums here a bunch of times.

Looking for any ideas on why my bike is so hard  to start, and suggestions on how to fix the problem.

I just bought a 2000 beta rev3 250 last week. When i went to get it the guy was working on it. He said he went to start out before i got there, but it wouldn't start. I looked it over and figured out what the problem was and offered him less money. Water had gotten under the stator cover and rusted things. I cleaned it all up and that fixed no spark problem. The hydraulic clutch wasn't working engaging all the way. I fixed that. Then it was back firing. The next day ( today) it kept dying. I figured out it was a mixture of a fuel flow problem and gunk in the carb. Fixed those.

My problem now is that it's very difficult to start. I have to kick it 15 or 20 times. Once it's running it runs well without any problems. When it's warm it will start up first try. When i go to start it in the morning i have to keep kicking it until I'm ready to kick the bike to pieces if  wasn't so tired. 

I read that stator problems can cause this. I don't think that's the case because it runs well. I also read that these flood easily. When I've checked the plug while trying to kick it the plug isn't wet and is very clean with just a little golden brown on it. 

I'm going to check that the plug is the right one for this bike since it's the one that came with it. The guy put in a new plug while i was there. 

I asked the guy if he had the same problem. He said yes. He said it's cold natured and it took him 15-20 kicks. There has to be a reason for this though. I'd like to find it and fix it. I love that my little gasgas starts up first kick every time. 

And suggestions, ideas, and advice is appreciated. Thanks.

[nh014]

Had a similar problem with my 03 Rev3 when I purchased it 2005 and did all the usual  carb, fuel, plug, and wiring checks with no change. That is until I had it at a meet and had just started the 15 - 20 kick starting routine when another Rev 3 owner came up and said you can't start them that way. I was standing along side the bike and  giving it what I thought was a decent kick. He straddled the bike, raised himself completely off the ground and came down with all his weight and speed and the bike was running. I've used that procedure ever since and it is always a 2 or 3 kick start when cold and one kick when warm 

[Franklin9000]

4 minutes ago, nh014 said:

Had a similar problem with my 03 Rev3 when I purchased it 2005 and did all the usual  carb, fuel, plug, and wiring checks with no change. That is until I had it at a meet and had just started the 15 - 20 kick starting routine when another Rev 3 owner came up and said you can't start them that way. I was standing along side the bike and  giving it what I thought was a decent kick. He straddled the bike, raised himself completely off the ground and came down with all his weight and speed and the bike was running. I've used that procedure ever since and it is always a 2 or 3 kick start when cold and one kick when warm 

I'll try that tomorrow. It's very different from starting my other bikes. First off its on the left side, but also it hits a point where if you try to kick it the only thing you do is hurt your foot. I have to get it right at tdc by slowly pushing it down all the way and letting it back up. Then gently push it down until you feel it hit a certain point. All of my other bikes are much more forgiving. 

When you say he raised himself off the ground do you mean he used his off leg to jump in the air and then he transferred all of his weight to his left? He kept a little pressure on the kicker to keep it in the right spot right?

Thanks.

[nh014]

"When you say he raised himself off the ground do you mean he used his off leg to jump in the air and then he transferred all of his weight to his left? He kept a little pressure on the kicker to keep it in the right spot right?"

That's the drill, although the jump is more of just raising up with all of my weight on the left leg.

[goudrons]

11 hours ago, Franklin9000 said:

The next day ( today) it kept dying. I figured out it was a mixture of a fuel flow problem and gunk in the carb. Fixed those.

When I've checked the plug while trying to kick it the plug isn't wet and is very clean with just a little golden brown on it. 

These sound like your problem, lack of fuel getting through.

You need to pull the carb again. Strip and clean it, pay close attention the jets aren't blocked or any of the overflow/breather pipes.

Next you need to set the float height for fuel in the float bowl. Due to the angle the carb is fitted, the Rev3 is very fussy to how the level is set.

Too low and it'll starve, too high and it'll flood up and pee fuel everywhere, set it really high and it'll just pour straight through the carb and into the crank.

You might find the setting on the forum somewhere and it'll be in the handbook which you should find on the net somewhere.

The Mikuni carb isn't the best bit of kit and it can take some time setting it up, though this should be pretty easy and straight forward.

When I ran Rev3's I binned the Mikuni for a Dellorto, the difference is quite apparent and they run far better, but are a lot fussier to set up.

[markparrish]

Mine was getting hard to start as my main bearings were worn. After replacing them it was a very different bike. I also agree with others that there is a bit of a "knack" - I use the kick lever to slightly turn over until max compression is felt, then as described above, raise up with a bent leg on the lever and apply a brisk and firm "kick" by straightening my leg and descending at the same time. When cold I use the choke and no throttle. when warm just a bit of throttle.

[section swept]

Apply front brake, fuel on and throttle twisted about half way, tickle card if fitted with one, push bike forward against front brake a few times causing front forks to depress....this action should cause a little fuel to enter crankcases....feel engine onto TDC and give kickstart a positive, no messing kick...engine should start....maybe do this twice but stsrting should be much quicker.

As everything you have checked is working and the bike starts easily when hot, it is just method, but the process I have described normally works fine?

[al_orange]

On 12/12/2018 at 2:53 AM, Franklin9000 said:

Hi. New to this site, but I've read forums here a bunch of times.

Looking for any ideas on why my bike is so hard  to start, and suggestions on how to fix the problem.

I just bought a 2000 beta rev3 250 last week. When i went to get it the guy was working on it. He said he went to start out before i got there, but it wouldn't start. I looked it over and figured out what the problem was and offered him less money. Water had gotten under the stator cover and rusted things. I cleaned it all up and that fixed no spark problem. The hydraulic clutch wasn't working engaging all the way. I fixed that. Then it was back firing. The next day ( today) it kept dying. I figured out it was a mixture of a fuel flow problem and gunk in the carb. Fixed those.

My problem now is that it's very difficult to start. I have to kick it 15 or 20 times. Once it's running it runs well without any problems. When it's warm it will start up first try. When i go to start it in the morning i have to keep kicking it until I'm ready to kick the bike to pieces if  wasn't so tired. 

I read that stator problems can cause this. I don't think that's the case because it runs well. I also read that these flood easily. When I've checked the plug while trying to kick it the plug isn't wet and is very clean with just a little golden brown on it. 

I'm going to check that the plug is the right one for this bike since it's the one that came with it. The guy put in a new plug while i was there. 

I asked the guy if he had the same problem. He said yes. He said it's cold natured and it took him 15-20 kicks. There has to be a reason for this though. I'd like to find it and fix it. I love that my little gasgas starts up first kick every time. 

And suggestions, ideas, and advice is appreciated. Thanks.

Choke working? Try turning the air screw in a fair bit and see if that helps the starting.

Edited December 13, 2018 by al_orange
Autocorrect rubbish

[lineaway]

Are you using the petcick? Hard starting on a normal rev 3 usually would be caused by engine flooding. A Beta sbould easily start with 2 or three kicks. Nothing wrong with the Mikuni on the Beta. They were standard equipment from 1990 to 2007. Beta tried the Del Orto in 1995 and those ran like crap.

[Franklin9000]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 9:20 AM, goudrons said:

These sound like your problem, lack of fuel getting through.

You need to pull the carb again. Strip and clean it, pay close attention the jets aren't blocked or any of the overflow/breather pipes.

Next you need to set the float height for fuel in the float bowl. Due to the angle the carb is fitted, the Rev3 is very fussy to how the level is set.

Too low and it'll starve, too high and it'll flood up and pee fuel everywhere, set it really high and it'll just pour straight through the carb and into the crank.

You might find the setting on the forum somewhere and it'll be in the handbook which you should find on the net somewhere.

The Mikuni carb isn't the best bit of kit and it can take some time setting it up, though this should be pretty easy and straight forward.

When I ran Rev3's I binned the Mikuni for a Dellorto, the difference is quite apparent and they run far better, but are a lot fussier to set up.

I'm pretty sure the carb is set up properly. I did have a problem with fuel flow. I pulled the petcock, but it was clean. The inline fuel filter was old and slowing down the flow, so I replaced it. I cleaned out the carb really well making sure the jets and circuits were clear. The way I've always checked float height is by turning it upside down and seeing if it's level with the carb body. Maybe it's different here because it's mounted at an angle, but I haven't had any of the other symptoms such as fuel coming out of the overflow, or the plug being wet.

 

7 hours ago, markparrish said:

Mine was getting hard to start as my main bearings were worn. After replacing them it was a very different bike. I also agree with others that there is a bit of a "knack" - I use the kick lever to slightly turn over until max compression is felt, then as described above, raise up with a bent leg on the lever and apply a brisk and firm "kick" by straightening my leg and descending at the same time. When cold I use the choke and no throttle. when warm just a bit of throttle.

 

What symptoms were you having to know your bearings were on their way out?

5 hours ago, section swept said:

Apply front brake, fuel on and throttle twisted about half way, tickle card if fitted with one, push bike forward against front brake a few times causing front forks to depress....this action should cause a little fuel to enter crankcases....feel engine onto TDC and give kickstart a positive, no messing kick...engine should start....maybe do this twice but stsrting should be much quicker.

As everything you have checked is working and the bike starts easily when hot, it is just method, but the process I have described normally works fine?

I'll try this today. I didn't get a chance to start it yesterday. I was busy working on some other vehicles. I'm pretty sure my kicking method is good though. I'm used to starting my old yz250 by jumping up and putting all my weight into the kicker. It is a little awkward because it's on the left side though.

 

4 hours ago, al_orange said:

Choke working? Try turning the air screen in a fair bit and see if that helps the starting.

I don't know what you mean by the air screen. Please explain. And I think the choke is working. At first I was concerned it wasn't, but that's when I was having a fuel flow problem. After I cleaned out the carb and fixed the flow it seemed to work.

 

23 minutes ago, lineaway said:

Are you using the petcick? Hard starting on a normal rev 3 usually would be caused by engine flooding. A Beta sbould easily start with 2 or three kicks. Nothing wrong with the Mikuni on the Beta. They were standard equipment from 1990 to 2007. Beta tried the Del Orto in 1995 and those ran like crap.

Ya. I always make sure to turn the fuel off when I stop riding. It's possible I messed it up the first time though. I wasn't sure which way was off, res, and on until I took the petcock apart. I know it's been off since then though.

 

 

Thanks for all your replies. You guys are awesome. I always appreciate new ideas and advice. I'll try some of these things today and let you know what happens.

[markparrish]

1 hour ago, Franklin9000 said:

What symptoms were you having to know your bearings were on their way out?

HI - There was a fairly obvious "rough" noise from the case when running - it did actually run quite well but starting was very difficult.

[oni nou]

1 hour ago, Franklin9000 said:

I'm pretty sure the carb is set up properly. I did have a problem with fuel flow. I pulled the petcock, but it was clean. The inline fuel filter was old and slowing down the flow, so I replaced it. I cleaned out the carb really well making sure the jets and circuits were clear. The way I've always checked float height is by turning it upside down and seeing if it's level with the carb body. Maybe it's different here because it's mounted at an angle, but I haven't had any of the other symptoms such as fuel coming out of the overflow, or the plug being wet.

 

 

What symptoms were you having to know your bearings were on their way out?

I'll try this today. I didn't get a chance to start it yesterday. I was busy working on some other vehicles. I'm pretty sure my kicking method is good though. I'm used to starting my old yz250 by jumping up and putting all my weight into the kicker. It is a little awkward because it's on the left side though.

 

I don't know what you mean by the air screen. Please explain. And I think the choke is working. At first I was concerned it wasn't, but that's when I was having a fuel flow problem. After I cleaned out the carb and fixed the flow it seemed to work.

 

Ya. I always make sure to turn the fuel off when I stop riding. It's possible I messed it up the first time though. I wasn't sure which way was off, res, and on until I took the petcock apart. I know it's been off since then though.

 

 

Thanks for all your replies. You guys are awesome. I always appreciate new ideas and advice. I'll try some of these things today and let you know what happens.

Air screen TRANSLATION Airscrew.

[al_orange]

39 minutes ago, oni nou said:

Air screen TRANSLATION Airscrew.

Yes, sorry... Was in a meeting and didn't notice the auto "correct".. 

[Franklin9000]

I tried moving it forward and hitting the brakes 3 times before starting it and then kicking it really hard. I was able to get it to start the 2nd kick. Thanks for the advice. I've been trying to mess with the air screw. It doesn't seem to do much. It only wants to die when you put it all the way in. but from 1/2-2 1/2 there isn't a noticeable difference. Usually I can hear a big difference each half turn. The cold might have something to do with it. I know the circuit and jets are all clean. maybe it's sucking air from around the boot. I'll test it with some starter fluid. 

I don't really like the gearing on this bike. Third gear doesn't have enough range, and then fourth gear is too high. It makes trying to do things like slow wheelies difficult. Maybe I just have to get used to it. On my little gasgas 160 I did most things in third.

It's all snowy here. I'm trying to ride around in the snow, and sliding all over the place. Much better than sitting inside waiting for it to melt though.

[guy53]

Mine was hard to kick, but started on 2nd kick cold, 1st when hot

Guy