trapezeartist Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 Right then Montesa fans. I’ve asked a similar question on the Sherco forum. Tell me why I should buy a Montesa and not a Beta 200 or 250. Or not, as the case may be. The reason for asking is I’m thinking of changing fron twin shock to modern and it’s really hard to get my head around the pros, cons, problems and model changes of the various manufacturers. I’ve g it myself reasonably well-educated on the Betas so I need to compare. My budget buys me a 2014-16 Beta so a Montesa would be somewhat older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourian Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 You really need to ride the bikes to see what suits your riding style, however having said that, there's no reason why you couldn't adapt, which you're going to have to do coming from a twinshock. Now I'm not a good rider by any means and if I were to ride a different bike, I don't believe it wouldn't make me a better rider So here's my personal reasons why I love my 4RT:- Looks, sound, build quality, parts availability and price, not a lot of maintenance required, no mixing of fuel, lower depreciation Some modern 2T riders have tried a 4RT and gone back to a 2T as they can't get on with them, others have never looked back, so as i said at the beginning, you really need to ride different bikes to see what suits you. Good luck 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasserguy Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 Just try both and make your own mind up !!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted December 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 Well of course that’s the obvious solution. But getting access to bikes to have a proper ride on some proper sections is not so easy. A few figure-of-8s around a car park doesn’t really tell the story. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 A 4RT is harder to ride, initially than a 2T - as that is maybe what you're used to A 2T will pick up and grip from nothing A 4RT needs your weight further back and a progressive throttle and not to roll off too early, as you won't get the grip back like a 2T Depends too, if you ride mud/roots or rocks, streams and gullies A 4RT can be frustrating to ride initially and as a Clubman, my TYZ Yam is far easier to ride for a better result 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 The Beta out turns and tracks better than the 4RT. The 4RT is amazing when the front tire is in the air. No matter what bike choice, (Repsol, 260 std or 300) the suspension is better on the Montesa. The Beta starts better. They are both pretty bulletproof bikes. Of course the ease of FI is very nice on the Cota. Their is a noticeable weight difference and ground clearance issue on the Cota. Plastics are way cheaper for the Montesa. If you want a bike to last more than a decade, the Montesa is it. Probably an unfair, but truthful comparison is I know more riders that used to have a 4Rt than have one now. Mainly the Honda lover`s stay Honda lover`s. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted December 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 46 minutes ago, lineaway said: The Beta out turns and tracks better than the 4RT. The 4RT is amazing when the front tire is in the air. No matter what bike choice, (Repsol, 260 std or 300) the suspension is better on the Montesa. The Beta starts better. They are both pretty bulletproof bikes. Of course the ease of FI is very nice on the Cota. Their is a noticeable weight difference and ground clearance issue on the Cota. Plastics are way cheaper for the Montesa. If you want a bike to last more than a decade, the Montesa is it. Probably an unfair, but truthful comparison is I know more riders that used to have a 4Rt than have one now. Mainly the Honda lover`s stay Honda lover`s. That is the most useful response I’ve had from anywhere. Thank you lineaway. I was tending to veer down the Beta route and I think you’ve just confirmed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, trapezeartist said: That is the most useful response I’ve had from anywhere. Thank you lineaway. I was tending to veer down the Beta route and I think you’ve just confirmed it. Try both first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thall1 Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 Hi, I've had both a 4RT (2007) and now we've both got beta 4T's (2013 & 2014)....4RT is a lovely bike, great build quality but if goes wrong, as mine did...it can be a pain to sort out, its difficult without a donor bike to swap bits with to find the problem or problems...mine was a defective capacitor with loom corrosion and an intermittent ECU fault all at the same time!....just unlucky I guess but it almost became a scrap bike. Beta 4T build quality isn't quite up to 4RT standard but not far off overall..its simpler with the carb, starts just as easily apart from maybe when its been on the floor or stalled...usually find full throttle sorts it out... but no different to a 4RT ECU reset really . Beta turns better and I (and my son) find them easier at slow/low throttle to control. Clutch isn't quite so switch like either. given a choice of bikes, I and my son would now go for the Beta 4T... as mentioned earlier, try first for as long as possible...good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa325 Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 Like lineaway said the 4RT in my opinion doesn't do anything better than a two stroke and I just find them more difficult to ride than a two stroke.I find it much easier to get traction and get the power down on my 300 gasser than the 4RT, however the 4RT does have good ergonomics and nice suspension but is also noticeably heavier. As a side note, as an observer of fellow riders/competitors in my class and other classes I don't see to many riders improving when they swap to the 4RT. Anyway these are just my opinions and you should really try them all yourself.Another factor that you should consider is what is the dealer backup like in your area. The Gas Gas dealer here in Australia is sensational and is a major factor in people choosing that brand out here, a phone call/text one day sees the part at your doorstep within two days max, in addition to over the phone assistance as well as the same service at events. Cheers Greg 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 (edited) They are both great bikes and I would say for the vast majority Lineway has it nailed. For me however I find the 4RT the bike of choice. I find 4RT turns great, I can’t deny the Beta turns sharper however for me it didn’t seem to help me in an actual section. I love not having to jet it to ride pretty much anywhere. I prefer the suspension on the 4RT as it really makes unexpectedly deflecting off rocks and roots less abrupt for me where the Beta took more attention over drastically changing surfaces. I haven’t seen any issues with traction in any conditions I have used it, unless your count going from Western Washington mud to grippy Idaho rocks and suddenly getting to much traction an issue. (LOL) I love the build quality and believe that as long as I take care of it my 17 Montesa 300 RR will last as long or longer than my 07 4RT is lasting. I think adjusting from a 2T to a 4RT would take some time and is worth consideration. I had been on a mix of 2T and 4T with a slight lean to the 4T side my whole life so didn’t have much adjustment on the 4RT other than learning trials when I started. (Almost all 4T now though) Not sure on the Beta 4T but the Montesa has a higher idle than every 2T I have ever been on so that always has me adjusting a bit when I do spend some time on a 2T anymore. I also really like not having to mix the fuel, but that wasn’t a deal breaker. I think that most people do better on the 2T’s and though I would like to think otherwise it’s just the way it seems to be. In the end I would say you wouldn’t go wrong with one or the other as far as the bike is considered but as for the rider that can vary widely. Good luck! Edited December 23, 2018 by jonnyc21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duggan Posted December 24, 2018 Report Share Posted December 24, 2018 Hi Trapeseartist If you’re after a 4t it’s and easy decision, Honda every time! 24 world championships back to back and total domination in trial 2 this year is proof enough for me. My self and the group of lads I ride with have a mix of Montesa’s and gasgas’s and we ride some seriously muddy venues, I am yet to see the Montesa’s struggle in the grip department in comparison, in fact if anything I’d say they get more drive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 24, 2018 Report Share Posted December 24, 2018 16 hours ago, trapezeartist said: Well of course that’s the obvious solution. But getting access to bikes to have a proper ride on some proper sections is not so easy. A few figure-of-8s around a car park doesn’t really tell the story. speak to some guys in your arae contact a guy named brindly youve probably heard of him he and his pals will let you try out im sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 24, 2018 Report Share Posted December 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, duggan said: Hi Trapeseartist If you’re after a 4t it’s and easy decision, Honda every time! 24 world championships back to back and total domination in trial 2 this year is proof enough for me. My self and the group of lads I ride with have a mix of Montesa’s and gasgas’s and we ride some seriously muddy venues, I am yet to see the Montesa’s struggle in the grip department in comparison, in fact if anything I’d say they get more drive. mud for the average rider is the 4rts achillies heal. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted December 24, 2018 Report Share Posted December 24, 2018 They are a bit of a marmite bike. Either way if you do switch then give the 4rt 6 months - initially you may get better but then may go backwards -especially in slimy conditions but once/if you master the technique they can be very rewarding and good fun. Maybe coming of a twin shock maybe an advantage as they benefit from an old school style of riding -weight back and good throttle control - not the 2T zip and clutch burn technique. Once you believe they will grip and hang on a second longer then the grip is there -if you bail out and foot then they can spin and the grip is gone. Clutch out and feel for the grip using the bottom end torque gives dividends but you have to believe in the bike. First gear is amazing and will grip but you have to be a bit brutal once you have the grip in a lower gear -I have had some mega cleans in 1st gear where 2t riders are pulling 3rd. Depends on your riding style I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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