section swept Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 11 hours ago, johnnyboxer said: KTM did exactly the same the week before Xmas in Dec 2018 Lobbed £1500 to £2000 off the RRP, off their MX and Enduro bikes Dealers had no prior warning and customers who bought in Nov were livid as their new Bike had dropped £3k KTM always appear to have offers with big discounts for their off-road stuff, least ways they did when I ran one and followed the ads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section swept Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 It’ll all be beta in a few months when eveyone announces their 2021 model line up...thus trouncing any upstarts attempts at a 2020 being available. Used trials bikes (newish ones) values will obviously be affected possibly making owners hang onto their bikes for far longer, the resultant lull in the market will do the dealers out of new bike sales so they will start to snap up any used modern bikes worth buying to increase their options with second hand bike sales. This is pretty much how the trials market was in the late 60’s /70’s very few dealers stocking new machines maybe just the one or two and concentrating more on used stock. That was an effect of the kit form bikes where you bought direct from the manufacturer and most dealers sold road bikes rather than just specialise in one sport area. Its a brave dealer that isn’t multi-franchise today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the dabster Posted February 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 There seems to be a certain amount of confusion around my initial post. This has nothing to do with dealer incentives or ways to make less desirable models more appealing etc. It's about an importer wilfully undermining the value of used bikes that belong to customers that keep a roof over his head. Surely it's in everyone's best interest to maintain a level of commercial integrity within a market to ensure it's ongoing success. When one faction makes a unilateral decision to enhance their own position at the detriment of others it destabilises that market. The same importer was profoundly aggrieved when customers were crossing the channel in their vans and buying bikes in Spain. The strength of the pound was such you could have a weeks holiday in the sun, pick a bike up on your return and still be cheaper than buying the equivalent bike via a recognised source! Certificates of authenticity were the order of the day and you couldn't purchase spares for that brand if you didn't have the appropriate paperwork. Not so acceptable then when the boots on the other foot! I was aware KTM dropped the VAT on the full range during Nov Dec and again I would urge those customers affected, make sure you reward KTM by selecting your next bike in a BMW dealership. I've used the example already in this thread and want to do so again to emphasise my point. If I were going to a Beta dealer this week with an 18 model looking to upgrade to a 19, my part exchange price would be rightly based on the original purchase price of £6399? I'll happily pay the difference. Margins aren't the issue for me, fairness and loyalty is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 I'm confused you regularly trade in 911's, Margins are not an issue for you, You are looking to trade in a bike that is 6 months old for a newer model... but you are upset that you aren't getting a better deal.... and you are thinking that despite riding GG for the last 10yrs Beta would be better to deal with??? Maybe I have had a few too many pints but I just don't get it . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewmorpeth Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 There’s a saying “How do you make a small fortune in motorsport?”Answer;You start with a large fortune!”If you want any guaranteed trade in price maybe a gasgas pcp scheme would suit you?I don’t know if JS does one but you could always ask?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 9 hours ago, section swept said: KTM always appear to have offers with big discounts for their off-road stuff, least ways they did when I ran one and followed the ads. Usually April or May, doing it in December was unheard of and even the dealer was taken by surprise too Must be a pre Brexit move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 9 hours ago, the dabster said: . Margins aren't the issue for me, fairness and loyalty is. Business runs on margins. Fairness and loyalty don't pay mortgages. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collyolly Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 Last special priced bike has now gone, the whole thing will be forgotten in a week and all will be back to normal. The original dealer who offered the low P/X with the excuse, is either inexperienced with the supply of last years model and its effect on the market ( ie typically small numbers and if it had not been raised as an issue on this forum who would have known about it )or did not want the business, plenty more dealers that do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the dabster Posted February 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 8 hours ago, michael_t said: I'm confused you regularly trade in 911's, Margins are not an issue for you, You are looking to trade in a bike that is 6 months old for a newer model... but you are upset that you aren't getting a better deal.... and you are thinking that despite riding GG for the last 10yrs Beta would be better to deal with??? Maybe I have had a few too many pints but I just don't get it . You're right you don't get it. I'm not looking for a 'better deal' or complaining about the lack thereof. I'm saying the goal post moving on the RRP of a new GG financially undermines those that are looking to part exchange for a new model. It's the principle of what's been done. I used the example of selling a second hand 911 to show it's not the money it's the principle. Name any other brand of bike in the trials market and hypothetically consider the fact that customers of these brands, looking to part exchange in the same manner I am, would not be penalised financially the same way a GG customer would right now because of the action taken by a single entity that has the ability to influence the future value of that model. I've actually had it said to me by dealers " If it was a Beta it would be different but I can go out and buy a new one for close to what you feel yours is worth, so why would I give you that". Who can argue with that, and as I initially said, because of this action GG ownership is proportionally more expensive than other brands in the same market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section swept Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 9 hours ago, the dabster said: There seems to be a certain amount of confusion around my initial post. This has nothing to do with dealer incentives or ways to make less desirable models more appealing etc. It's about an importer wilfully undermining the value of used bikes that belong to customers that keep a roof over his head. Surely it's in everyone's best interest to maintain a level of commercial integrity within a market to ensure it's ongoing success. When one faction makes a unilateral decision to enhance their own position at the detriment of others it destabilises that market. The same importer was profoundly aggrieved when customers were crossing the channel in their vans and buying bikes in Spain. The strength of the pound was such you could have a weeks holiday in the sun, pick a bike up on your return and still be cheaper than buying the equivalent bike via a recognised source! Certificates of authenticity were the order of the day and you couldn't purchase spares for that brand if you didn't have the appropriate paperwork. Not so acceptable then when the boots on the other foot! I was aware KTM dropped the VAT on the full range during Nov Dec and again I would urge those customers affected, make sure you reward KTM by selecting your next bike in a BMW dealership. I've used the example already in this thread and want to do so again to emphasise my point. If I were going to a Beta dealer this week with an 18 model looking to upgrade to a 19, my part exchange price would be rightly based on the original purchase price of £6399? I'll happily pay the difference. Margins aren't the issue for me, fairness and loyalty is. Its that customer loyalty that helps smooth the business path with repeat custom. If I was still in the business you would certainly be on my books as one to receive excellent offers and deals. That was the basis upon which I did business and it included a certain JS who supplied me with his kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the dabster Posted February 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 36 minutes ago, collyolly said: Last special priced bike has now gone, the whole thing will be forgotten in a week and all will be back to normal. The original dealer who offered the low P/X with the excuse, is either inexperienced with the supply of last years model and its effect on the market ( ie typically small numbers and if it had not been raised as an issue on this forum who would have known about it )or did not want the business, plenty more dealers that do. I agree with you wholeheartedly and thought this to be the case myself. When I initially posted I had no idea of the amount of new bikes to be shifted and the common theme being discussed by dealers was "we can't sell them because of what the importer is doing" excuse. As I said it was one dealer only that was opportunistic and as you rightly say had it not been raised on this forum many would not have even known about it. If it was to happen on a larger scale and over a longer period with future models it would influence which brand I selected for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the dabster Posted February 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, section swept said: Its that customer loyalty that helps smooth the business path with repeat custom. If I was still in the business you would certainly be on my books as one to receive excellent offers and deals. That was the basis upon which I did business and it included a certain JS who supplied me with his kits. Your comments encapsulate exactly what I am meaning. I don't care about the money. I have learned from this experience by speaking to people for instance, like Lawrence from BVM motos that I could pay up front for a brand new bike, send my old bike to him by courier and ask him to refund the difference in value; believing the price he decides is fair. I've actually done this with chas at John Lee motorcycles because of the distances involved. Someone else commented on an earlier thread that trust and loyalty don't pay mortgages... they do in my world. If you were still in the business you would be exactly the kind of person I'd deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heffergm Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) I think I see what you're getting at now and I totally get it as someone that typically buys a bike every year. Case in point, my local dealer recently offered me a new Sherco at factory support pricing. While the difference in absolute dollars is great, I'm more happy having received such a nice offer from the dealer, which is why I keep buying from him. Edited February 10, 2019 by heffergm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collyolly Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 Was he unloading Shercos ? Joking aside be interested in your comparison to the GasGas, give it 6 months then back to a Gasser ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heffergm Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) To totally derail this thread: I love GG's, but I really don't like that they're putting Ohlins shocks on them now. I also really don't like that they're 500-1000 USD more than a Beta or Sherco, the latter of which I can get with a Reiger. Since they're all worth the same money after a year... The bigger issue for me now is unloading year old GG's at decent money. When they went under for a year, everyone here that was on GG (which was a lot of people) bought TRS's, and no one is inclined to switch back. Beta and Sherco both have strong followings as well, so unloading a used one is a lot less problematic. Edited February 10, 2019 by heffergm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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