wayne thais Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Here is a quate from another post, and demonstrates (IN MY OPINION) part of the problem with Trials in the US. "In my opinion, it is folly to assume that we should atrtact as many youngsters as we can to trials, because, taking my local scene into account: - we already have 100 plus riders per trial. Queues at sections are long enough! - the more people who latch onto trials, the more who take it into their own hands to use ground for illegal practice, endangering continuation of the sport. Sure, we need to ensure the sport continues, but its current popularity doesn't threaten this." Again, in my opinion this shows that some people/clubs are content with the status quo. What if the M/X, S/X crowd felt the same way, we would certainly not have the growth in those venues that we have. Since there is no national organization for american trials the club/organizer can conduct the event anyway they want. If 100 riders causes long queues at the sections maybe the club should run the lower classes in the morning and the higher classes in the afternoon. Again if the number continued to grow they could hold "Heats" all of the riders would have to "Qualify" for the main event by riding two or three sections, only the top riders would move on to the main event. The M/X, S/X crowd have learned how to handle large numbers, trials needs to learn from their example. As far as people using illegal grounds for practice, again what do the large number of M/X, S/X and I could include cross country and Hare Scrambles racers do for practice. In my area there does not seem to be a problem. It seems like there is an old foggy attitude around some areas of trials, this is the way we have always done it and this is the way we are going to do it forever even if it kills the sport. Trials is a wonderful, fairly safe, family sport that I would really like to see grow, but those who are involved must change their narrow minded attitude, again my opinion only. I would love to see 100 riders at a local event, it would certainly be a challenge at first but I am confident that it could be managed. Am I the only one who feels like this or are there others out there who feel the same way? Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Speaking from the UK, I think that hiding the sport away for the minority is a shame. Putting my club organiser hat on, I wouldn’t mind if 150+ riders turned up to one of our trials every time we had one (as long as the venue could cope of course). When you go to the extent of some clubs in preparing a trial, the last thing I want to see is 40 riders rushing round and finishing in 1.5 hours then off home. The more the merrier I say At a recent trial at South Shrop where 150 riders (unexpected) turned up, the organisers sorted more observers, organised the parking and we were away. There was a small amount of waiting at some sections, but not much. I took the opportunity to have a chat whilst waiting to people I never met before and thoroughly enjoyed it. I’m with you on this one More trials riders = Good More money spent on trials is good money spent IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin j Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 right on wayne. I've been on that bandstand for years. Lots of promo work at local level (brocuhre, video, displays, etc) but we have to change mindsets to WANT to grow. If not, the land access is going away fast. Now, how do we form the structure to acomplish it? I think the USMTA is the key right now. kcj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m lawson Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Where is this club located that gets over 100 riders at every event? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gii Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 It does seem a rather selfish attitude As a UK trials secretary entry sizes are important to me, my club currently uses 3 venues, 2 are large, ie. you get a long ride around and one is very compact. If I get over 60 entries I'm quite happy, the event is viable, over 90 entries on the compact course and queueing becomes a real problem, over 135 entries on the other courses and you are looking at a late start and a late finish. (I always ride my club's events) Several things can be done to alter the nature of the trial and reduce the problems. Sending half of the field off to start at section 6 say will certainly help. In our centre, the expert riders seem to take twice as long as the novices (I know their sections are harder). We are fortunate that our venues are very popular but we were getting a bit tired of the late finishes. We now put up a notice at section 1 stating the number of sections, the number of laps, and the time at which section 1 will close. Whilst it is not universally popular, no one has ever got within 20 minutes of exclusion for lateness and entries have not dropped. If queuing is a constant problem at a certain venue, making the sections shorter and slightly more severe can really help. If entries are consistently higher than venues can stand, then make all entries postal and close at a pre-determined figure. This is currently done at one venue in my centre. If the sport was so over subscribed that every trial was at it's true maximum capacity and restricting entries then the natural course of events in that area would be for more clubs to form and run more trials, the sport would expand and advance. As a matter of interest, how far do you have to travel most weekends to ride a trial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 (edited) Mail entries are an excellent way of reducing the number of entries, we use that method for enduros in the USA. The Scottish Six days also is by mail entry only, imagine if you could just show up at the Scottish and ride! How many entries would they get? Maybe 500 or more! To ride a trial in the USA you will drive between 2 to 4 hours each way for a close one. There will be somewhere between 25 to 60 riders competing in 5 or more classes. Each class having differnt gates for their route in the sections. In our state we can ride about 1 trial a month unless we want to drive 6 or more hours each way for more events. If we are willing to drive extreme distances we could ride maybe 2 or sometimes 3 a month a few times a year. Edited January 17, 2006 by Mich Lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Lines are easily solved. Split starts, section modification, more observers, and lengthening the looop. Plus some other things that I didn't mention or couldn't think of. As for land issues... Here in New England we have NETA which in turn incorporates all the local trials clubs into one organization, "loosely". Anyways, it used to be that all newbies had to join a local club. (Therefore giving them a place to ride and a "thing" to be a part of so as to promote trials). However this has changed, and while not everyone is in a club, they ride at their house or join a club when they recognize that a club= trials promos, being a part of something, and a sweet place to ride without being chased by the squirrel cops. While that may not work in some areas, you implement parts of it imo. Lane may have to travel several hours, but for some in the good ole new england, don't have to travel as far usually. Depends upon where you live. We like to run about 7-12 events a year locally too. From Northern Maine, to Western New York, to southern Rhode Island to Massachusetts. Not much driving there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 We got 115 entries for the last trial at Addingham. 15 were youngsters on the conducted course. It didn't seem that many but there again I was at the last section so it tends to string out a bit by the time they get to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Dman, your post hits the nail on the head. 7 to 12 trials a year! We need at least 50 a year close to home in each area of the USA. In England a rider can do at least 52 per year with much less driving than you. If you are willing to drive a few hours I bet you could ride almost a hundred trials a year in England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuessenhigh Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Yep, I reckon the problems with queues only arrises in an area where there arent too many trials. I'm in the South midlands UK at the mo. and sometimes the queues are horrendous!...BUT...either other regions cope with large numbers better or something, I dont know, but for example, when I've ridden South Shropshire trials or Breidden Hills trials, theres never a problem with queues. Of course a few minutes is nice, have a chat etc. but I've done a few recently where you might wait almost 20 minutes!! Commenting on this, I do OF COURSE admit, that I'm a hipocrit (sp?) since, as yet, I havent taken on the hard work of organising an event in the UK!...so please dont take it personally anyone! As for keeping trials a sport for the minority...well...I can still see both sides of that argument very clearly, and never know which side to take! Having seen some crossers going nuts and riding like loonies illegally the other day, I certainly wouldnt want to be involved with people like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 To ride a trial in the USA you will drive between 2 to 4 hours each way for a close one. There will be somewhere between 25 to 60 riders competing in 5 or more classes. Each class having differnt gates for their route in the sections. In our state we can ride about 1 trial a month unless we want to drive 6 or more hours each way for more events. If we are willing to drive extreme distances we could ride maybe 2 or sometimes 3 a month a few times a year. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If I could only ride a trial once a month and it be a 4 hour drive I wouldn't bother with the sport. Just shows how good we have it in the UK.On that basis, I can see why there are issues with rider numbers if they only get their fix once a month. It is possible to manage large rider numbers without queing for longer than 10 minutes. I have seen it done succesfully but it is at a cost .. and that is helpers/observers! Good flowing section design. Room between sections to park up. Sections that arent too long and 2 observers to keep it moving with the aim if possible to always have a rider in the section at all times. Easy said but it does work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanorbust Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Interesting analysis of the issues around entry numbers, land availability and frequency of events. Seems the thing which has worked in favour of the sport in the UK, where trials are flourishing, i.e. a low key approach and no specific marketing of the sport, is what has worked against it in the US. I remember an article in Cycle magazine as long ago as 1970 entitled "Trials - the next big participant sport". What happened? Perhaps it's a culture thing, where the subtlety and finesse reflected in trials and its devotees fits more with the British approach and is less appealing to those brought up on supercross and speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuessenhigh Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 interesting points...and you're right AtomAnt...if CAN work..and it certainly does at your trials!!..cant WAIT till Im up that way again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 interesting points...and you're right AtomAnt...if CAN work..and it certainly does at your trials!!..cant WAIT till Im up that way again! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 5th March Stu .. Nantmawr Quarry be there.. ( might have to wait a bit though ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Perhaps it's a culture thing, where the subtlety and finesse reflected in trials and its devotees fits more with the British approach and is less appealing to those brought up on supercross and speed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good observation I think The other thing about the US is sports that are BIG over your way are stadium sports. The family goes along and its a day out. Could that be a factor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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