hgas Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 Toni bou has won every indoor and outdoor title since 2007, that’s 12 years of complete domination and I just can’t see an end to it any time soon !,busto has faded since leaving Honda and the top 4 riders in nearly every trial gp are the old guard Fuji/raga/fajardo and bou , what’s people’s opinion on why new riders arn’t coming through ? I tipped miquel gelabert and Benoit vincas for great things this year but they are both having shockers and oriol noguera has been knocking on the door of the top ten for a few years but he’s given up and gone home 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 There is no reason to work that hard to get to what end? No money in trials. And Bou dominates to keep his ride secured. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Having gone to Belgium to watch I am more concerned that he may be the last world champion. It wasn't good to watch. Section 8 lap 1, fajardo has an incredible clean, Bou loses 2. Everyone else 5 with a serious crash for Kadlec, lucky to walk away. Many made no attempt they just asked for a 5. As we walked past section 9 Busto had a massive crash, it was so steep he fell about 20 feet and nearly took the observer with him. His bike was stopped by a tree but the impact was so severe all 4 handlebar clamp bolts were snapped clean off. Section 10 was the section Fuji had a bad crash on last year but it was used again. Minders were doubling up to try and catch riders who didn't make it but generally couldn't stop some pretty awful incidents. Gelabert went cartwheeling backwards and was caught by his bike on the way down. He has , per his Instagram feed, broken bones above his jaw. The video is sickening, he could easily have been paralysed or killed. Jack Price, Dan Peace, Kadlec , Bincaz and Casales had similar incidents. Fuji , Busto and Bou cleaned it on lap 2, raga had a dab the rest had fives. You can't really call the above accidents , the probability of a crash is too high to say it's accidental. For me the trial was simply too hard and dangerous for all but two riders. Raga in 3rd place averaged more than two marks per section and nobody can doubt his courage or ability. Should Trial GP follow other sports and make changes after someone is paralysed or killed or should it avoid the misery, the investigation and regret this would bring and make changes now ? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intotrials Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Bou will continue to dominate until either age or injury catches up with him. He may decide to retire prior to either of these, but looking at the current young talent at the moment there is no one who shows signs of ever being good enough to topple Bou. We had a few glimpses from Busto and watching him in practice he looks as good as Bou, but when it comes to the big occasion he seems to lack the edge the other riders like Bou and Raga have. Maybe this is just a lack of experience, though Bou was already starting his dominance by Busto's current age. I think baldilocks has a point, the current world championship set up plays right into the hands of the top riders giving little chance to everyone else. When faced with such severe sections there is as much a courage element as there is skill. The problem being that when sections are set so that they are essentially do or die then the divide between the scores is going to be very large. This is partly why you see the likes of Bou finishing on just a few marks with very capable riders like Jack price in the hundreds. To be honest if you watch the world rounds the story always seems the same - Tight turns up massive dangerous steps and climbs, very spectacular to watch and definitely should be included in as a couple of sections. But it seems that most of the sections follow this trend and you see the score cards reflect this. The current outdoor championship is too similar to the indoor championship, for me they should be 2 totally different sports. Year in year out they try to take marks off Bou by making the steps bigger and the risks higher. When will they learn that to take marks off riders the sections have to be trickier to negotiate rather than more extreme. Bou & co will still be at the top because their skill level is so good, but it would divide the scores more even and give less courageous riders the chance to excel and claim back lost marks. When you watch the world rounds you already expect Bou to make all the big steps, its almost a given that he will excel against all the other riders at this. I find it more appealing watching the riders negotiate a really tricky section where absolute precision, balance, timing, throttle control is displayed to its max. Where they are fighting to hang on to the bike for a clean, rather than hanging on to the bike as they fall from a massive step! We as "normal" trials riders can relate to this. 30 years ago a decent national rider could compete at a world event, yes he/she would not fair well against the elite but the majority of the sections, though tough, were attempt-able. One of the problems these days is that the bikes are so trick and the new style of riding exploits this it will be difficult to change the culture of the younger riders coming through. Trials has almost developed into 2 separate sports - acrobatic trials and traditional trials. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triangle Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 This isn't just a problem at the world championship level, it is filtering down into national and sometimes club trials too. The S3 championship which used to be the CLUBMAN championship now caters for around 20 riders if you are lucky on the hard route and around 100 on the easy route. Those figures say it all. The severity on the hard route is sometimes ridiculous and it is fairly standard to stand and catch for each other. This is very very good riders standing catching for each other I might add - what the hell is that about??? The world championship has major severity issues and has been that way for years now which has a major impact on how the sections are observed (not going into that though) and they are dangerous. Would it be less severe if it was stop permitted? I don't know the answer to that but I would definitely say it was more predictable and less chance of a major accident as the minders have time to get into position and the riders are not having to throw themselves at stuff when they are not lined up. I watched the 26 minute video from the Netherlands and it looks a superbly organised event, lots of spectators and a good atmosphere. The sections are all man made which is no problem for a one off but the observing is completely diabolical. I have observed at world level a few times and you just have to stand firm as the riders know when they can take the mickey. The sections look like they are not set for no stop (obviously to try and take marks) but this is the complete opposite of what should happen. The sections should require perfect precision and a reward is given for a clean ride, not going in and hopping, stopping and pushing the observer into no-mans land where they just find it easier to let everybody stop so they have a day of minimal aggravation. Is it just trials that its acceptable to not stick to the clear rules? You don't see a golfer hit the ball down the fairway and then they don't like where it has landed so pick it up and drop it where it suits them for their next shot. Something must change as there will be a major accident either indoors or outdoors and then there will be a full inquest. The clerk of the course is then in the firing line and most of the time they haven't even put a flag in the ground at this level yet have to take the responsibility on. Not fair if you ask me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) They have to bring the whole level down a few notches regardless of stop/nostop and the only way to do that is limit the bikes, and the simplest way to do that is to decrease the performance of the tyre. Either back to 4 ply or change the knob pattern. But oh no, you'll have a certain bunch of people who demand that trials should forever increase in difficulty so that they can watch Bou go up steeper and steeper stuff while the entries go lower and lower. Edited July 2, 2019 by faussy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockheadrumple Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Completely agree with the last 3 posts. Somehow, the sport has been hijacked, probably in an attempt to make it more attractive to spectators (which it may be in the modern voyeuristic age) but seriously, putting in larger and larger steps with zero run up is becoming monotonous to me, I often trawl the Youtube to find wet muddy WTC sections as I find it far more entertaining. Trials was the original motor sport for everyone, we all rode the same route back in the non stop days, centre entries were 150+ and everyone had a seriously great day out. Even with my modest abilities I was able to ride a national with the likes of Mart Lampkin, Malc R, John Reynolds etc, I fived almost everything but got round and finished, happy days. Who knows what the answer is but I surely do love to see an old school ace, riding non stop in a "traditional" event, sadly their number is dwindling!!! Very relevant post by Fausy too!! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) In regards to the OP, seeing fuji still compete at a high level at 40 must mean Bou could do the same without serious injury and i don't see any of the current generation ever being able to reach his current ability Edited July 2, 2019 by faussy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triangle Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Interestingly, Moto GP and Formula 1 both have restrictions on tyres so if it's good enough for them then surely it is good enough for a small sport like trials. It will never ever appeal to the masses so this rubbish about making it spectator friendly etc is a wasted exercise. Entries at grass roots level are up massively but absolutely none of those riders have watched a world round video from recent years and thought "I fancy chucking myself at a 12ft rock step with nowhere to fall off and the minder probably wont be able to reach to catch me anyway". There are some super videos from the 90's on youtube on the Trialsport video channel. Yes it is extremely difficult what they are doing but isn't actually a world apart from some stuff in a national trial nowadays which just shows how ridiculous the job has become. There is a reason the Kia championships and twinshock type trials are so popular as they are appealing for the masses to ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 12 hours ago, baldilocks said: Having gone to Belgium to watch I am more concerned that he may be the last world champion. It wasn't good to watch. Section 8 lap 1, fajardo has an incredible clean, Bou loses 2. Everyone else 5 with a serious crash for Kadlec, lucky to walk away. Many made no attempt they just asked for a 5. As we walked past section 9 Busto had a massive crash, it was so steep he fell about 20 feet and nearly took the observer with him. His bike was stopped by a tree but the impact was so severe all 4 handlebar clamp bolts were snapped clean off. Section 10 was the section Fuji had a bad crash on last year but it was used again. Minders were doubling up to try and catch riders who didn't make it but generally couldn't stop some pretty awful incidents. Gelabert went cartwheeling backwards and was caught by his bike on the way down. He has , per his Instagram feed, broken bones above his jaw. The video is sickening, he could easily have been paralysed or killed. Jack Price, Dan Peace, Kadlec , Bincaz and Casales had similar incidents. Fuji , Busto and Bou cleaned it on lap 2, raga had a dab the rest had fives. You can't really call the above accidents , the probability of a crash is too high to say it's accidental. For me the trial was simply too hard and dangerous for all but two riders. Raga in 3rd place averaged more than two marks per section and nobody can doubt his courage or ability. Should Trial GP follow other sports and make changes after someone is paralysed or killed or should it avoid the misery, the investigation and regret this would bring and make changes now ? That is sickening, to read That is not Trials anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taff_d Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Bou is the problem he's just a freak of nature so much better than anyone else, organisers put sections on to take marks off him and it makes it too hard for 95% on the field. Ease the sections off he's going to win anyway and let the others have some fun, hopefully Bou will get bored and retire. I for one find all the trick circus riding very boring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worlez Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 11 hours ago, faussy said: They have to bring the whole level down a few notches regardless of stop/nostop and the only way to do that is limit the bikes, and the simplest way to do that is to decrease the performance of the tyre. Either back to 4 ply or change the knob pattern. But oh no, you'll have a certain bunch of people who demand that trials should forever increase in difficulty so that they can watch Bou go up steeper and steeper stuff while the entries go lower and lower. This is such a ridiculous concept. I’d rather have a good tire and choose whether to attempt something or not than have a worse tire and face the same decision. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy53 Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 I tried to bring someone I know to a TS competition that I attend with my modern bike ( everybody is welcome ), he does not want to come. I finally found why: He checked trials comp on Youtube and can not relate to the sport. I keep telling him that '' our sport '' is completely different from what he saw on the net, he still think he will make a fool of himself. We went for a ride together, he should have understood seeing me ride that our meeting are more 1975 related but the damage is done. Tony Bou is a wizard the other top 10 are still in Ogwart and trying to catch up, so, please make trials for ordinary people, and bring the best to show there talent maybe we will have more riders at our events and less riders that ride alone thinking they are not good enough Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 My solution would be to make only half of the Championship sections severe and the other half suitable for National level. Ok most would have to take 5s at the harder stuff but there would be sections they would clean and not humiliate themselves with a card of 5s. That way everyone could "ride" the same route . Can't see why this wouldn't work and everyone would be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, worlez said: This is such a ridiculous concept. I’d rather have a good tire and choose whether to attempt something or not than have a worse tire and face the same decision. The whole idea is you wouldn't be facing the same decision. It would be either ride up a 10 ft step with a good tyre, or a 6 ft step with a not so good tyre. Same difficulty, different level of danger Lots of sports introduce rules over the years to limit speed and danger, trials hasn't. Im just saying limiting the tyre is the easiest way. How would you suggest to lower the danger? Edited July 3, 2019 by faussy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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