section swept Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 Do you remember the televised ‘Kick Start’ programme that had school kids and adults riding the same sections. To get more viewers the sections were tailored to be a bit intimidating. Now after the indoor arena trial events with virtually impossible sections invented to keep the rider and audience on their toes it seems that even a double back flip with bells on is not enough to satisfy the viewers expectations. Pre-65 trials is being dominated by cheque book riders using bikes that are virtually a mere shadow of a genuine 1965 trials iron. Progression has taken trials beyond the reach of the average rider. I still hear the words of a young rider on the IOM during the 1978 TT competing in a trial, having just attempted a section in the rocks he had to bale out and upon surveying his brand new and now badly damaged bike his comments went something like this. “Why have I spent all this money just to throw my bike at some rocks and risk serious injury, whats the point?” I think personally that some of us aspire to be riders that we can never emulate. Trick riding is not trials riding, but the majority of riders spend loads of cash on trying to be as good as the top few, with their daily training and repeat, repeat riding the same impossible stages until fully mastering an obstacle. The average hard working clubman rides a few days a month to ‘practice’ but can ill afford to spend every day practicing. Like a lot of sports, trials has lost its way, whats wanted are trials with genuine sections and not something out of Mission Impossible or 007 stunts. Something that can be attempted without the fear of a long stay in hospital! Its enthralling to watch some one with the ability of Bou, but to ride like him is out of the question. So maybe the people that give of their free time to plan trials and the sections should perhaps forget about Bou and co and think instead about the ‘bread and butter’ riders. I’d sooner ride in a trial the was satisfying and achievable rather than a test of my gonads, courage and smashing my bike to bits. So who cares if it was a close run thing with 15 riders challenging for the win, infinitely better than just one winning by miles and the rest amassing loads of points. There I’ve said me piece, Bernie Schreiber has a lot to answer for way back when a trial was just that, and not a test of courage. Put Mr Bou on a 500 Ariel HT and see what he can do then? You wont be seeing him ride up a tree or ride through the bow of a tree, or jiggle about for the best approach. We need to reappraise trials before it disappears up its own section. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 Regardless of location if the Wtc isn't attracting young riders and bike sales are not driven by it then something needs to change. I had a great time in Belgium but watching the trial wasn't one of the highlights. As someone who has watched trials for about 45 years, I've ridden plenty as well, that's not a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canario Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 On 7/5/2019 at 3:15 PM, worlez said: I really find this talk of limiting bikes frustrating and ill thought out. If you limit innovation, you are handicapping riders whose ambition drives them to develop the skills that they are capable of. Why would you possibly want to do this?! Trials is a competitive sport. The argument that WTC level is too far beyond club level illustrates the difference between a professional career athlete and somebody who rides as a hobby. There is nothing wrong with the latter, but to limit the ambition of riders who are capable/willing/committed enough to push what's possible on a bike is ludicrous. There is a reason 'the average' (what does that even mean anyway!?) rider can't attempt WTC sections, the same way that Toni Bou wouldn't attempt to achieve what the Sunday league riders achieve in their respective careers'. At some point everybody is a clubman - it's the ambition of each rider that determines the way they progress. If you begrudge not being able to have a go at WTC sections, put the effort in until your ride well enough to attempt them. So let's please drop this ludicrous desire to hinder the progression of trials. I agree with you. Some weeks ago, I watched the GP in Zelhem. After the GP all three riders on the podium reported independently that it was a "very easy" competition. During qualification and later in the competition I saw each of them also frequently talking to Jordi Tarres as well as to Jordi Pascuet. So I think that the top riders and the organisers agree that the organisation of the events, the performance of the bikes and the level of difficulty of the sections are exactly what they want. On the other hand side, as a Clubman rider, I don't claim to ever be able to ride the same sections as the top 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluey Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 Have there been a lot of injuries in trial GP? It sure looks scary to us riders with far less skill but then the things I am riding now scared the **** out of me (and were genuinely dangerous to me) a couple of years ago too... I certainly get the fact that sections can be difficult without being dangerous but this is a world championship with riders who have taken their skills to another level. It would be interesting to hear their point of view.. BTW it's not uncommon for riders to leave our local trail rides in a medical helicopter. It doesn't seem to deter Mums and Dads from taking their kids along for a good thrash around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triangle Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 5 hours ago, Canario said: I agree with you. Some weeks ago, I watched the GP in Zelhem. After the GP all three riders on the podium reported independently that it was a "very easy" competition. During qualification and later in the competition I saw each of them also frequently talking to Jordi Tarres as well as to Jordi Pascuet. So I think that the top riders and the organisers agree that the organisation of the events, the performance of the bikes and the level of difficulty of the sections are exactly what they want. On the other hand side, as a Clubman rider, I don't claim to ever be able to ride the same sections as the top 10. I watched the highlights of the round from Zelhem and the top 3 did all say it was easy. I bet they wouldn't have said that if they got scored correctly as barely anybody would get through anything. Trials has certainly lost its way as quoted in one of the other posts. I don't think that doing a bit of trick riding (hopping the back wheel etc) is a problem as that has been done since the early 80's, I think that the dangerous circus style acrobatics in which somebody will get seriously injured is not trials. Maybe it will take somebody to hurt themselves fro something to be done, I don't know. I was watching a video on youtube from the early 90's and there are minders but not really for catching, it is more for lining up etc. Removing them from world championships would probably make the job even more dangerous as it will be purely down to who has the biggest cahonas. The bikes are better than any of us will ever be but holding back the development isn't the key as that will just put the factories out of business eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section swept Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 4 hours ago, triangle said: I watched the highlights of the round from Zelhem and the top 3 did all say it was easy. I bet they wouldn't have said that if they got scored correctly as barely anybody would get through anything. Trials has certainly lost its way as quoted in one of the other posts. I don't think that doing a bit of trick riding (hopping the back wheel etc) is a problem as that has been done since the early 80's, I think that the dangerous circus style acrobatics in which somebody will get seriously injured is not trials. Maybe it will take somebody to hurt themselves fro something to be done, I don't know. I was watching a video on youtube from the early 90's and there are minders but not really for catching, it is more for lining up etc. Removing them from world championships would probably make the job even more dangerous as it will be purely down to who has the biggest cahonas. The bikes are better than any of us will ever be but holding back the development isn't the key as that will just put the factories out of business eventually. Not selling bikes will also put a company out of business! Maybe the manufacturers should concentrate on building bikes that are less expensive to buy and maintain. Back in the 60’s and 70’s many a trials bike doubled as a ride to work in the week and ride to win at the weekend. Minders should not be needed and if one were to be seriously hurt the media frenzy that would follow would not do trials any favours. Instead of catering for the few top riders trials organisers should be catering for the average riders that without whom the top riders would not be in such high esteem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 55 minutes ago, section swept said: Not selling bikes will also put a company out of business! Maybe the manufacturers should concentrate on building bikes that are less expensive to buy and maintain. Back in the 60’s and 70’s many a trials bike doubled as a ride to work in the week and ride to win at the weekend. Minders should not be needed and if one were to be seriously hurt the media frenzy that would follow would not do trials any favours. Instead of catering for the few top riders trials organisers should be catering for the average riders that without whom the top riders would not be in such high esteem. Not sure where your riding but the local trials organizers in both of the groups I ride with catering just fine for the average riders... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluey Posted July 13, 2019 Report Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) I really don't think the danger of modern trials keeps young riders away. Look at downhill mountain biking - hugely popular here in NZ. Take a look at the tracks being built all over the place, full of "do or die" drop offs and gaps with loads of teenagers bombing down them having a great time. Plenty of older guys too and lots of injuries. People love it and lots of council funding is going into track building and maintenance. Show most kids a slow, technical, snotty trials section and it just looks boring. If they give it a try, they realize that it's going to take a lot of practice to get good and even then it won't really impress their mates or (more importantly) the opposite sex. Trials is in a difficult position I believe because it probably needs to be flashy and extreme to attract young riders but it's so difficult to get to that level that many will give up. I don't know what the answer is but times have changed and I don't think keeping the sport at a level that old guys enjoy will help secure it's future. Edited July 13, 2019 by bluey 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 On 7/11/2019 at 12:13 PM, baldilocks said: It's Portugal this weekend? oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Reggie Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 It all went wrong when it became ok for riders to wear Lycra... Put all riders in crusty old belstaffs and wellies and see how high they can jump from squatting..... problem solved....? I wonder what the FIM are doing as regards TV and Media coverage? The Arena events in particular I find as interesting as watching paint dry. Monster trucks runs it a close second...it’s that dull. No TV coverage = No money I don’t have any answers but I do feel strongly that the indoor circus is a major distraction. By contrast I would love to watch a blow by blow from the SSDT (closer to heart of the sport). if we could somehow distinguish between indoor and outdoor, stop and no-stop, natural and artificial, Lycra (Spandex) and Waxed cotton we might just be in a better place... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intotrials Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) Bottom line is the sport as developed as all technological based things do, the bikes are just so versatile and these guys are exploiting this. For me and I'll stand by my opinion, the sport has developed into 2 sports - X-trials and traditional trials the average clubman cannot relate to the technique required for X-trial, its acrobatic and totally different than traditional trials. Personally I'd like to see more traditional style sections in the outdoor world championships and less of the X-trial stuff. As much as I admire and watch in awe at the skills of the top guys to be able to attempt such massive dangerous stuff, watching the same thing for lap after lap of 15 sections gets rather boring. You can take marks off the top guys if you set trickier sections rather than more massive. Do or die sections can be exciting to watch, yeah sure stick a couple in there but to have this style as the generic trend just spoils it for me. What I would like to see is a diverse range of sections offering different challenges rather than just flat out up a big step time after time. I don't have the answer, and I'm not sure what the solution is (assuming one is required) but it does seem that trials at this level is rapidly losing popularity, which is a dam shame for us all. Edited July 19, 2019 by Intotrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTR Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Early March 1985 Bilstain World Round 150 riders thousands of spectators fantastic atmosphere. Three loops 18 sections each, tight time limit no minders. Beautiful Trial !!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intotrials Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 On 1/20/2021 at 8:21 AM, JTR said: Early March 1985 Bilstain World Round 150 riders thousands of spectators fantastic atmosphere. Three loops 18 sections each, tight time limit no minders. Beautiful Trial !!! Only trouble is modern world trials has developed into something totally different. Not sure if there is a way back to "the good old days" in terms of riders participation and spectators. Back then, a decent centre/national rider could enter and have a good go at most of the sections. These days its elitist, so beyond the reach of the vast majority of riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 47 minutes ago, Intotrials said: Only trouble is modern world trials has developed into something totally different. Not sure if there is a way back to "the good old days" in terms of riders participation and spectators. Back then, a decent centre/national rider could enter and have a good go at most of the sections. These days its elitist, so beyond the reach of the vast majority of riders. "The good old days trials" obviously worked and encouraged sales/ participation. Current world level trials are a fantastic spectacle undoubtedly, but are as relevant to the grass root trials as juggling with flaming torches on a unicycle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) I didnt realise RG trial had decided to leave the sport, they were helping Billy Green, Frances Moret and Gabriel Marcelli. So where are these three going this year ? Maybe need an 80cc class next to get to 50 entries..... Or make the whole thing electric in 2022 . Bikes not as capable so severity will have to reduce and we would be ahead of other sports from an environmental point of view? Edited January 30, 2021 by baldilocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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