When will it end ??

[johnnyboxer]

To me..............this is Trials - in Andorra last weekend (at 14.21 there is a fair rock step, on a TS)

 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by johnnyboxer

[johnsandywhite]

23 hours ago, rockheadrumple said:

Completely agree with the last 3 posts. Somehow, the sport has been hijacked, probably in an attempt to make it more attractive to spectators (which it may be in the modern voyeuristic age) but seriously, putting in larger and larger steps with zero run up is becoming monotonous to me, I often trawl the Youtube to find wet muddy WTC sections as I find it far more entertaining. Trials was the original motor sport for everyone, we all rode the same route back in the non stop days, centre entries were 150+ and everyone had a seriously great day out. Even with my modest abilities I was able to ride a national with the likes of Mart Lampkin, Malc R, John Reynolds etc, I fived almost everything but got round and finished, happy days. Who knows what the answer is but I surely do love to see an old school ace, riding non stop in a "traditional" event, sadly their number is dwindling!!! 

Very relevant post by Fausy too!! 

I agree. I used to be on the Committee of the Richmond Club so all around Yorkshire was my venues back in the 70s. I rode against the same people along with Dave Thorpe, Alan Lampkin, Mick Andrews, Rob Edwards, Rob Shepherd, Mick Wilkonson, the starting of the Richardson Family and many other top riders. As you say, to ride the same sections as all the top boys in National and local trials was great to finish and say that was a GOOD days Trial.

[metisse]

I rode the trial in Andorra at the weekend, and one of the sections was at the Toni Bou practice area, complete with shaded grandstand.  The upright logs in one of the online  videos are huge and the spaces between large. Plus an array of metal blocks and steps. He must have balls like a small planet... not my bag. I rode the same sections as two world champions, French and Spanish champion didn t hurt myself, bend the bike which was 45 years old... but it did have a new rear tyre.  Thats trials not this circus of serious injury.  As long as those in charge don t meddle in classic trials the young bucks can bend themselves and their bikes all they like, but someone is going to get seriously hurt soon. 

 

[supersup]

Maybe trials should take a leaf from the F1 camp when they all refused to race when too dangerous?

Watching the X-Trial which in my opinion has become pretty boring, it worries me that the up and comming riders will take risks that could end their career. If the same is true in Trial GP then something should be done..........I know why dont we have a British round where its a little muddy and slippery ?

If you are into conspiracy theories then maybe the Honda dominance is relevant and perhaps they have a say in things?

Either way it will have to come from the riders we are all responsible for our own safety after all.

[dan williams]

19 hours ago, johnnyboxer said:

To me..............this is Trials - in Andorra last weekend (at 14.21 there is a fair rock step, on a TS)

That was wonderful. Thank you for posting that!

 

[Intotrials]

15 hours ago, supersup said:

Maybe trials should take a leaf from the F1 camp when they all refused to race when too dangerous?

Watching the X-Trial which in my opinion has become pretty boring, it worries me that the up and comming riders will take risks that could end their career. If the same is true in Trial GP then something should be done..........I know why dont we have a British round where its a little muddy and slippery ?

If you are into conspiracy theories then maybe the Honda dominance is relevant and perhaps they have a say in things?

Either way it will have to come from the riders we are all responsible for our own safety after all.

I have to agree with you about the X trials. If you bring up each round over the past few years on tube they all look the same and they are just following the culture of "bigger the better". This of course makes it more dangerous and the sections truly do become do or die! I appreciate that indoor is more difficult to add variety because you are limited to what you have to work with within an arena. Its a bit like the "supercross" in this respect.  

It seems the outdoor is following the same trend though and getting worse each year. The sport at this level is unrecognisable to club level, its become an elite acrobatic sport that would be more suited to X games. 

I don't know the answer to resolve the problem and bring back outdoor trials as it was originally intended. Maybe I would start by looking at the way sections are set, I mentioned this in another thread on the same topic.  

[b40rt]

I can watch Andora and trials like highland 2 day all day, hardly ever any world rounds. I find the "minders" scurrying around bizarre.

 

 

[Intotrials]

I remember the world rounds back in the late 80's early 90's  the venues were cracking with vast variety. The scores were cricket scores, but every section was attempt - able by all the entry. The top riders still aced the lesser riders but the scores divide was evenly distributed, the crowds were large and it was not boring to watch. The sections were of a good variety showing off the skills to tackle all sorts of terrain, from deep mud, & hill climbs to rivers, rocks, logs, bank sides with tree roots...   The club riders could relate and appreciate this and it certainly encouraged me to go out and practice/compete more in the hope that I could have a go at tackling at a similar severity.  

[johnnyboxer]

24 minutes ago, b40rt said:

I can watch Andora and trials like highland 2 day all day, hardly ever any world rounds. I find the "minders" scurrying around bizarre.

 

 

Me too, I can watch the SSDT and Scott, appreciating it for what it is, a test of man & machine against the real elements of natural terrain and of course no stop

[nigel dabster]

On 7/2/2019 at 8:01 AM, Intotrials said:

Bou will continue to dominate until either age or injury catches up with him. He may decide to retire prior to either of these, but looking at the current young talent at the moment there is no one who shows signs of ever being good enough to topple Bou. We had a few glimpses from Busto and watching him in practice he looks as good as Bou, but when it comes to the big occasion he seems to lack the edge the other riders like Bou and Raga have. Maybe this is just a lack of experience, though Bou was already starting his dominance by Busto's current age. 

I think baldilocks has a point, the current world championship set up plays right into the hands of the top riders giving little chance to everyone else. When faced with such severe sections there is as much a courage element as there is skill. The problem being that when sections are set so that they are essentially do or die then the divide between the scores is going to be very large. This is partly why you see the likes of Bou finishing on just a few marks with very capable riders like Jack price in the hundreds. To be honest if you watch the world rounds the story always seems the same - Tight turns up massive dangerous steps and climbs, very spectacular to watch and definitely should be included in as a couple of sections. But it seems that most of the sections follow this trend and you see the score cards reflect this. The current outdoor championship is too similar to the indoor championship, for me they should be 2 totally different sports.

Year in year out they try to take marks off Bou by making the steps bigger and the risks higher. When will they learn that to take marks off riders the sections have to be trickier to negotiate rather than more extreme. Bou & co will still be at the top because their skill level is so good, but it would divide the scores more even and give less courageous riders the chance to excel and claim back lost marks. 

When you watch the world rounds you already expect Bou to make all the big steps, its almost a given that he will excel against all the other riders at this. I find it more appealing watching the riders negotiate a really tricky section where absolute precision, balance, timing, throttle control is displayed to its max. Where they are fighting to hang on to the bike for a clean, rather than hanging on to the bike as they fall from a massive step! We as "normal" trials riders can relate to this.

30 years ago a decent national rider could compete at a world event, yes he/she would not fair well against the elite but the majority of the sections, though tough, were attempt-able. One of the problems these days is that the bikes are so trick and the new style of riding exploits this it will be difficult to change the culture of the younger riders coming through. Trials has almost developed into 2 separate sports - acrobatic trials and traditional trials.  

Agree with what you say but its not so much the bikes but the riders that are much better. Said it before, a raw novice on a twinshock back in the 80's cant do much more than someone in 2019 with a brand new bike, top lads on the otherhand....

Edited July 4, 2019 by nigel dabster

[nigel dabster]

On 7/2/2019 at 12:07 PM, faussy said:

They have to bring the whole level down a few notches regardless of stop/nostop and the only way to do that is limit the bikes, and the simplest way to do that is to decrease the performance of the tyre. Either back to 4 ply or change the knob pattern.

But oh no, you'll have a certain bunch of people who demand that trials should forever increase in difficulty so that they can watch Bou go up steeper and steeper stuff while the entries go lower and lower.

surely most of the sections would come down a notch if no stop was enforced?

[nigel dabster]

On 7/2/2019 at 5:22 PM, triangle said:

Interestingly, Moto GP and Formula 1 both have restrictions on tyres so if it's good enough for them then surely it is good enough for a small sport like trials. It will never ever appeal to the masses so this rubbish about making it spectator friendly etc is a wasted exercise. Entries at grass roots level are up massively but absolutely none of those riders have watched a world round video from recent years and thought "I fancy chucking myself at a 12ft rock step with nowhere to fall off and the minder probably wont be able to reach to catch me anyway". There are some super videos from the 90's on youtube on the Trialsport video channel. Yes it is extremely difficult what they are doing but isn't actually a world apart from some stuff in a national trial nowadays which just shows how ridiculous the job has become. There is a reason the Kia championships and twinshock type trials are so popular as they are appealing for the masses to ride.

What facts do you have to say entries are up at grass roots?

[nigel dabster]

On 7/3/2019 at 7:01 AM, breagh said:

My solution would be to make only half of the Championship sections severe and the other half suitable for National level.

Ok most would have to take 5s at the harder stuff but there would be sections they would clean and not humiliate themselves with a card of 5s.

That way everyone could "ride" the same route .

Can't see why this wouldn't work and everyone would be happy.

Who are these riders that will go around the world to ride half the sections?

even riders who are capable of riding the top route like matteo graterola doesnt do the top route now.

[nigel dabster]

On 7/3/2019 at 10:16 AM, faussy said:

The whole idea is you wouldn't be facing the same decision. It would be either ride up a 10 ft step with a good tyre, or a 6 ft step with a not so good tyre. Same difficulty, different level of danger

Lots of sports introduce rules over the years to limit speed and danger, trials hasn't. Im just saying limiting the tyre is the easiest way.

How would you suggest to lower the danger?

By the same process you should only allow twinshocks no linkage and drum brakes? Why just tyres? Then you could have 3 ft steps and no risk?

im sure its much more section design and the simple difficulty in taking marks off Bou that have caused many problems.

However i do think if you analyse the scores that the top 3 loose the odd 1 or 5 or 0, especially bou, there are virtually no sections that he struggles in and when he does as happened in the scottish wtc a few years back on slippery streams he was vulnerable.

 

So Jordi pasquet needs his a*** kicked for not doing his job.

Thierry Michaud should say the 3 criteria for no stop rules havent worked and it needs a re think, then we could get to a prestiguos showcase without so much danger.

Edited July 4, 2019 by nigel dabster

[dabber]

24 minutes ago, nigel dabster said:

surely most of the sections would come down a notch if no stop was enforced?

This. ?