johnnyboxer Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 18 hours ago, on it said: So will all clubs be going TSR22A so riders can practice there skills ? I see a few in Yorkshire have recently gone back to TSR22A, in the last few months, a change at BTC must have been mooted at ACU meetings, perhaps..............on the QT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) On 11/6/2019 at 9:51 AM, nigel dabster said: stopped with foot down 5 On 11/6/2019 at 11:08 AM, faussy said: Where did you get that from? I've just looked at tsr22a, and I'm no clearer which of you is correct ! Edited November 7, 2019 by b40rt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 I think it's better.Previous ruling made observing inconsistent with reports of abuse to observers,and the riders like to do the trick riding.As long as the sections aren't too long for the time limit,which sometimes happened before,it's the right decision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 26 minutes ago, b40rt said: I've just looked at tsr22a, and I'm no clears which of you are correct ! corrected, i was messing with my answer, stop foot down deffo a 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 22 hours ago, faussy said: Where did you get that from? corrected, i was answering one question then edited it so it answered in sequence etc etc but deffo a 1, apologies, always has been one for a foot down regardless of rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 22 hours ago, johnnyboxer said: Time will tell, it'll be another thing when it's put into practice Always difficult to mark top riders, any which way It will be less judgement calls whether better or not remains to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted November 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) I kinda wish they had went back to trying a 1 for a stop, but oh well. Some people argue stopping showcases skill, and while i still believe riding something nonstop should be rewarded in some way, a 5 for a stop was much too harsh Anyone else think a minute sounds rather brief? It used to be 1min30, and i guess they are maybe trying to keep it like non stop with very brief stops, but i bet theres a lot of nonstop sections at the moment that take longer than a minute to ride. As for the extra point for the best lap, i didn't think there was really anything wrong before. Always thought 20-17 was very little gain for a win, so i don't really know if the potential to have 23-17,or even 20-19 helps. I guess it adds a bit of variation. Technically if the 6th place man has a best lap, then he will have the same points as the man who finished in 5th (11). Heck theres even the chance of the 6th place man with 2 best laps coming away with more points than the 5th place man (12v11)!! While unlikely, not very fair I hate to be critical, but i guess its good they are trying something, the current rules were definitely flawed. I wish the fim were as forthright Edited November 7, 2019 by faussy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intotrials Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 Stop allowed at this level makes sense. Marking no stop for modern trials at championship level is too inconsistent and puts added pressure on the observer. I started my trials career riding no stop then adapted to stop allowed and enjoyed the "new" format. In my experience a good percentage of the people who complain about stop allowed do so cause they perform better no stop, or feel it evens the playing field (which it can to some degree). In some respects allowing stop can make the spectating more boring than it currently is so to combat that a time limit per section makes perfect sense. I've said it before and i'll reiterate, modern trials has developed into 2 sports. Back when I started out a decent centre rider could enter and compete to some degree at a British/world championship event and have a good go at most of the sections, these days this level has become elitist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 stop allowed is very often better for beginners 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_orange Posted November 11, 2019 Report Share Posted November 11, 2019 On 11/8/2019 at 11:12 AM, nigel dabster said: stop allowed is very often better for beginners Hmm... I can see that being true but as a reasonable novice that has a huge amount to learn, I will now have to dedicate considerable time to learning hopping in order to compete at clubman level. I think the problem with stop allowed is that every single section becomes a string of "hop, hop ,hop, braaaap" and repeat. I've been watching a load of the older videos and as a beginner and spectator, the current rules at world level are the best overall in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted November 11, 2019 Report Share Posted November 11, 2019 38 minutes ago, al_orange said: Hmm... I can see that being true but as a reasonable novice that has a huge amount to learn, I will now have to dedicate considerable time to learning hopping in order to compete at clubman level. I think the problem with stop allowed is that every single section becomes a string of "hop, hop ,hop, braaaap" and repeat. I've been watching a load of the older videos and as a beginner and spectator, the current rules at world level are the best overall in my opinion. Get yourself a pre65 / twin shock, join a no stop club, have fun. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 17 hours ago, al_orange said: Hmm... I can see that being true but as a reasonable novice that has a huge amount to learn, I will now have to dedicate considerable time to learning hopping in order to compete at clubman level. I think the problem with stop allowed is that every single section becomes a string of "hop, hop ,hop, braaaap" and repeat. I've been watching a load of the older videos and as a beginner and spectator, the current rules at world level are the best overall in my opinion. I'm actually in favour of this rule, no stop is far too subjective even in twinshock trials. However, although well intended changing the rules doesn't change the quality of sections which is the fundamental problem. Just because you can stop it doesn't mean you need to mark out sections where you have to stop or hop. Stick with non stop sections and all the rule change does is improve the consistency of observing rider to rider and section to section. World rounds don't matter to us but the last time I recall a proper non stop section was at Fort William, 2010 / 11?Since the wtc went no stop the sections haven't! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonkey Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 48 minutes ago, baldilocks said: I'm actually in favour of this rule, no stop is far too subjective even in twinshock trials. However, although well intended changing the rules doesn't change the quality of sections which is the fundamental problem. Just because you can stop it doesn't mean you need to mark out sections where you have to stop or hop. Stick with non stop sections and all the rule change does is improve the consistency of observing rider to rider and section to section. World rounds don't matter to us but the last time I recall a proper non stop section was at Fort William, 2010 / 11?Since the wtc went no stop the sections haven't! Spot on, need non stop sections which can easily be ridden within the time limit (time limit will just stop people balancing for 5 minutes in the same place) marked to the stop allowed rules to bring consistency to the observing. No doubt it won't be perfect but good on the ACU T&E for for taking these first positive steps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAD1 Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 On 11/6/2019 at 2:00 PM, on it said: I can remember first time around stop allowed it about killed trials off Sections were mad so tight if riders could not hop the bikes about or reverse , just gave the sport up and entrys dropped off . Wonder how long before the cry comes we want to keep the no stop sections marked out but ride them stop allowed much they way they do now ! and not made mega tight and technical The problem is you can have any set of rules you want but if there not applied 100% it turns into a farce, Problem is with trials its what the observer sees at the time, and that should be the end of it !!! no youtube experts giving there 1p worth So will all clubs be going TSR22A so riders can practice there skills ? The change being discussed is for top level British Championship. these boys and girls have no concerns with stop, hop, flick etc. New rules sounds good. Stop allowed but only 1 minute allowed per section. So the emphasis will be on getting out the section. If a rider spends 30’seconds lining up a step etc it’s up to them but they’ll have less time for rest of section as for riders practicing their skills, the top guys practice a lot so won’t be an issue. who knows what rules will filter down to clubs - hopefully the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAD1 Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 So has there been definitive rules for BTC? stop and hop allowed with 1 minute time limit. Is this all 3 routes in BTC? And is this likely to filter down to the more traditional trials - S3 and nationals etc? assume clubs at their own free will to decide what they want to implement within club trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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