Should there be another class in Trial GP?

[Trialsrider24]

11 hours ago, heffergm said:

"Should there be another class in Trial GP?"

No. 

 

How can we improve trials at this level? 

[timp]

Looking at the hard route in a lot of trials the entry has been depleted by having a 50/50 route. Riders stay on 50/50 rather than progressing to the top route. Possibly it means the top route is too hard?

[heffergm]

1 hour ago, Richk22 said:

How can we improve trials at this level? 

I know it'll blow people's minds to hear it, as the internet is the home of complaining, but I don't think there's anything to fix at the world level (aside from going back to three loops. I'll bypass the issue of no-stop for now). Trial2 has proven to be the best thing to happen to world level trials competition in recent memory: you've got a variety of winners, the championship is wide open, guys dropping down from GP are by no means guaranteed to win, manufacturers and importers are pushing riders to Trial2 because they know it's a place they have a chance of getting some visibility on the podium. I'll say it again: it's the best thing going for trials at this level, leave it alone.

You're never going to have 50 guys riding in GP, the initial pool of people interested in trials at an early age is just too small to result in a huge influx of riders who can compete at that level. If you want more people in GP, you need to start at the bottom by getting more people into the system, not screw around trying to limit the level at the top. The jump to GP should be big: adding a line between GP and Trial2 is just going to shrink two already small groups into three extremely small ones.

Edited December 4, 2019 by heffergm

[faussy]

1 hour ago, heffergm said:

You're never going to have 50 guys riding in GP, the initial pool of people interested in trials at an early age is just too small to result in a huge influx of riders who can compete at that level. If you want more people in GP, you need to start at the bottom by getting more people into the system, not screw around trying to limit the level at the top.

You had it in the past, 30 years ago you would have had 70 riders in the top grade. 25 years ago easily 50 in the top grade. 20 years ago 30. Now, 12. See a trend? Maybe you weren't around to experience world trials back then, but everyone who has experienced both knows hands down that was the golden era. The entry is still there, its just less people able to compete the top class, therefore diminishing it.

As for trial2, i mainly flick through it when the highlights come on.

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by faussy

[heffergm]

30 years ago the level of riding was also not remotely what it is today. You've basically just re-iterated my point: it's really hard to ride GP now, so there are less people able to do it. 

So you've got two choices: make the top level easier, which I think is lame, or groom more riders early on to compete at that level.

Edited December 4, 2019 by heffergm

[faussy]

4 minutes ago, heffergm said:

30 years ago the level of riding was also not remotely what it is today.

Did you ever see Jordi Tarres ride? 

In the end who cares? The sport was infinitely more competitive and entertaining to watch

Edited December 4, 2019 by faussy

[heffergm]

In your opinion. I know there's this feeling among some people that competition at the world level should somehow reflect a club trial. I don't agree.

Edited December 4, 2019 by heffergm

[heffergm]

4 minutes ago, faussy said:

Did you ever see Jordi Tarres ride? 

In the end who cares? The sport was infinitely more competitive and entertaining to watch

Ok, so what do you want to do? Make the top level easier? Go watch a 1990 world round (here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvCDu6GR1ck). Run that same event today and you're going to have half a dozen guys come back clean on the day.

 

[on it]

3 hours ago, Richk22 said:

 

 WTC problems are self inflicted Richk22

1,The  top route is way to hard with very few that can actually ride it, (but the top boys dont want it eased as thats there advantage gone )

2, problem observing or the very poor quality of it

3, sections  1 line (soon becomes very boring for the spectator ) 

4, lack of consistency in the trials 

5 lack of use of natural ground (well groomed sections)

6 multi class /multi route ( trying to make 3 or more sections out of 1 ) 

7 more demanding for parc ferm than the sections 

8 trying to pad the trial out with a qualifying speed section  ( how about starting next trial in previous finishing order )

9 FIM /promoter  running  trials for professional teams and riders cost (but relying  amature volunteers)

10 lack of entrys   ( see all above  ) 

you gotta ask your self  who  is going to spectate  WTC  a trials rider or joe public passing by ? if trials riders are turning there back on WTC as its got NO  relevance to trials , a extra course /class ant going to fix it !     

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by on it
text

[worlez]

1 hour ago, heffergm said:

I know it'll blow people's minds to hear it, as the internet is the home of complaining, but I don't think there's anything to fix at the world level (aside from going back to three loops. I'll bypass the issue of no-stop for now). Trial2 has proven to be the best thing to happen to world level trials competition in recent memory: you've got a variety of winners, the championship is wide open, guys dropping down from GP are by no means guaranteed to win, manufacturers and importers are pushing riders to Trial2 because they know it's a place they have a chance of getting some visibility on the podium. I'll say it again: it's the best thing going for trials at this level, leave it alone.

You're never going to have 50 guys riding in GP, the initial pool of people interested in trials at an early age is just too small to result in a huge influx of riders who can compete at that level. If you want more people in GP, you need to start at the bottom by getting more people into the system, not screw around trying to limit the level at the top. The jump to GP should be big: adding a line between GP and Trial2 is just going to shrink two already small groups into three extremely small ones.

Absolutely agree!

I really don't think there is the issue that a lot of people seem to think there is.  The reality is Toni Bou has raised the standard of competition to an enormous level - I think this would have happened whatever rule changes were implemented.  He's just an incredibly committed athlete.  Note how the riders who were in Trial GP prior to Bou (Fuji, Raga, Fajardo) have continued to evolve their riding - they've adapted just fine to how the rules/sections have developed, and they're all more or less posting the same year end rankings underneath Bou.

To the people who whinge that WTC isn't a reflection of domestic club trials - why is that a problem?  If you want trials to continue to evolve and inspire young people, make it an aspirational sport with proportional reward, not limit it's ambition to being a Sunday morning hobby in the mud.  The general standard of Sunday clubman is pretty crap and not something that a 15 year old me would be that inspired to emulate.

[worlez]

46 minutes ago, on it said:

 WTC problems are self inflicted Richk22

1,The  top route is way to hard with very few that can actually ride it, (but the top boys dont want it eased as thats there advantage gone )

2, problem observing or the very poor quality of it

3, sections  1 line (soon becomes very boring for the spectator ) 

4, lack of consistency in the trials 

5 lack of use of natural ground (well groomed sections)

6 multi class /multi route ( trying to make 3 or more sections out of 1 ) 

7 more demanding for parc ferm than the sections 

8 trying to pad the trial out with a qualifying speed section  ( how about starting next trial in previous finishing order )

9 FIM /promoter  running  trials for professional teams and riders cost (but relying  amature volunteers)

10 lack of entrys   ( see all above  ) 

you gotta ask your self  who  is going to spectate  WTC  a trials rider or joe public passing by ? if trials riders are turning there back on WTC as its got NO  relevance to trials , a extra course /class ant going to fix it !     

 

On point one, I'd love to ask somebody like Dibs what he thinks.  He's a very strong rider but is often up and down the results, but I don't get the impression he'd want to see sections eased so that he can be more competitive at the top.  If anything that kind of thing just undermines the graft that they all put in to attain their level.

The level isn't too hard, there's just a big difference between how good the riders are! 

[faussy]

1 hour ago, heffergm said:

but I don't think there's anything to fix at the world level (aside from going back to three loops. I'll bypass the issue of no-stop for now).

Yep, increasing a trial from 2 laps to 3 laps will fix everything ?

Edited December 4, 2019 by faussy

[faussy]

1 minute ago, worlez said:

On point one, I'd love to ask somebody like Dibs what he thinks.  He's a very strong rider but is often up and down the results, but I don't get the impression he'd want to see sections eased so that he can be more competitive at the top.  If anything that kind of thing just undermines the graft that they all put in to attain their level.

The level isn't too hard, there's just a big difference between how good the riders are! 

Thats the problem! Asking people like that!! How about asking the dozens of really good national riders who would want to ride a world round but cant because it means certain injury. Sacrificing the growth of the sport to please a few elite riders is what's killing it all!

[heffergm]

4 minutes ago, faussy said:

Yep, increasing a trial from 2 laps to 3 laps will fix everything ?

I never claimed it would. In fact, as mentioned, in my opinion there's really nothing wrong. But please, continue...

[heffergm]

2 minutes ago, faussy said:

Thats the problem! Asking people like that!! How about asking the dozens of really good national riders who would want to ride a world round but cant because it means certain injury. Sacrificing the growth of the sport to please a few elite riders is what's killing it all!

And having them ride Trial2 would be, what? Shameful?