ajsm18 Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 Hello, I've decided to replace the original Amal on my M116, 325 Alpina with a Mikuni and have bought one from In-Motion, along with the manifold. I have just tried to fit it and there isn't room for the retaining nuts at the two studs are practically touching the rubber manifold. I thought I'd ask in case anyone else has found the same problem and how they resolved it. I suppose I could cut the rubber away but don't really want to do this in case I damage it too much! Also, should I keep the original rubber carburettor spacer or remove it as the new manifold is rubber? If that is the case, I assume I will need a paper gasket between the new manifold and the existing manifold bolted to the cylinder? I hope I've explained the problem and will give In-Motion a call after the holiday but wanted to ask if anyone else had hit this problem and how they dealt with it. Many thanks ajsm18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnjsy Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 Hi, quite easy to resolve, actually. The studs in the manifold are M 8 , just remove and fit the rubber manifold with Allen head bolts. The studs may be quite tight, use 2 nuts locked together to undo, also head up the alloy in a tub of boiling water for 3 or 4 minutes, or use a heat gun. You may need to turn the heads of the Allen down a bit to get clearance to fit, maybe shorten them a sixteenth or so, different makers seem to have different specs for the sizes made. Also, a smear of copper grease or Vaseline will be a good idea on the threads to prevent seizing in the alloy manifold. Essential if using stainless Allen head bolts, the 2 different metals will corrode if fitted dry. Hope this helps........... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) You could alternatively fit a flat adaptor plate that fits the existing studs and has 2 holes in a vertical plane for a connector that has the mounting holes further apart. I've seen those adaptors for sale but would be very easy to make. Connectors with wider spaced mounting holes are easy to source. Yet another option is to use the inlet connector piece from a later model Alpina or Sherpa T, which are made to suit spigot mount carbies. That's what I did on my M138 Alpina when I replaced the AMAL flanged carby with a Mikuni, then an OKO Edited January 1, 2020 by feetupfun 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 As for your other question, yes when you use a rubber connector for the carby, you no longer need the thermal insulator piece. To seal that joint, you can use a paper gasket or machine an O ring groove or use a sealant that stays soft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 Here's a photo of the adaptor plate I was talking about 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsm18 Posted January 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 Fantastic, thank you for the replies, chaps! I think I'll give the allen bolt idea a go first as I should have some M8 bolts around somewhere! They may be stainless... The adaptor plate also sounds a good idea but I think the allen bolts will be an easier fix. Thanks, again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsm18 Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Hi, I'm still working on fitting my new Mikuni carb and now a really, stupid question! I'm going to use copper grease on the stainless M8 allen screws to fit the manifold but what is the best sealant for the manifold gasket? I was just going to smear the paper gasket with grease on both sides as I done that with old brit bikes so assume the same. Or should the paper gasket be installed dry? I'm never really sure! Thanks ajsm18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullylover Posted April 4, 2020 Report Share Posted April 4, 2020 Grease or even oil is fine as both let the gasket let go if you have to pull it off again. Installing it dry means you have to buy a new gasket every time. Graham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsm18 Posted April 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 On 4/4/2020 at 1:16 PM, bullylover said: Grease or even oil is fine as both let the gasket let go if you have to pull it off again. Installing it dry means you have to buy a new gasket every time. Graham. Thank you very much for your help, Graham. I really appreciate having such experts to call on! Take care and stay safe. We'll soon be out riding again. Mark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speightaco Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 On 1/6/2020 at 8:16 AM, ajsm18 said: Fantastic, thank you for the replies, chaps! I think I'll give the allen bolt idea a go first as I should have some M8 bolts around somewhere! They may be stainless... The adaptor plate also sounds a good idea but I think the allen bolts will be an easier fix. Thanks, again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee halsall Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 I was going interested in your description of your 116 Alpina as a 325 cc so I measured the stroke on my 116 and found it is 64 mm giving me 347 cc . I see from the spec sheet in my manual that there are 326 cc Alpinas with a stroke of 60 mm . When did the change occur and was production of the two different strokes at the same time ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Lee halsall said: I was going interested in your description of your 116 Alpina as a 325 cc so I measured the stroke on my 116 and found it is 64 mm giving me 347 cc . I see from the spec sheet in my manual that there are 326 cc Alpinas with a stroke of 60 mm . When did the change occur and was production of the two different strokes at the same time ? The first "350" Alpina (model 99) was 325cc and at the time, all Bultaco San Antonio 2 motors 250cc and bigger were 60mm stroke. The "350" Pursang, Alpina and Sherpa T were all 325cc. They didn't want to go any bigger in the bore for that stroke so that's where the 325cc came from. When they wanted to make the Pursang 360cc instead of 325cc, the stroke was lengthened to 64mm. This required larger crank wheels so when they went to 64mm stroke, the crankcase design also changed. The "350" Alpina and "350" Sherpa T also went to the same larger crank wheels design however the Sherpa T stayed at 60mm stroke (325cc) while the Alpina went to 64mm stroke (350cc). The 325cc Alpina (model 99) was sold in 1973. The first 350cc Alpina is the model 116 and was sold in 1973/74. Later Alpina "350" were all 350cc. However, Bultaco are reknowned for changing things in the design of a model during the production period so anything is possible (such as a 325cc motor in a model 116) which is one reason for why when you order engine parts from In Motion they want to know the engine number, not just the prefix. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee halsall Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 As always a comprehensive explanation , thank’s for taking the time . Is there a way of telling the year of manufacture from the engine no ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 14 minutes ago, Lee halsall said: As always a comprehensive explanation , thank’s for taking the time . Is there a way of telling the year of manufacture from the engine no ? Yes there are listings for when different models were sold but beware that the sales timing was different in different parts of the world, they didn't work to calendar years and they changed things without changing the model number, so it can get a bit confusing to think in terms of the calendar years. Here's one list that may help. There are plenty of other lists available on-line. They don't all agree. https://newellmotorcycles.com.au/pages/bultaco-history 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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