monteeman Posted January 6, 2020 Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 hello, ive been away from trials for a number of years now, but am looking to make a return. My brother has just bought a 300rr, and it seems a bit more sharp off the bottom than I remember my old 4rt was, but it was while ago.. The suspension was excellent tho, I have to say, front and back. I had a couple of 4rt's before , a 2005 and a 2008 model. my 2005 was a better bike, because it was newer to me and had seen less abuse than the 08. I was looking at the 4rts and noticed things havnt changed much outwardly. Ive also done a bit of reading up and most opinions are to go with a repsol as it has better suspension and rims. however, I am on a budget, i.e im not keen on spending an extra grand for some repsol graphics and a better set of wheels.... I was wondering just how much difference there is, in the real world, for a fat, fifty year old clubman doing the B route (I suspect 0.001%, but am cynical).. I mean between the base model and the respsol? would It be noticeable? What haves the 2020 models got that the 2013/14/15/16/17/18 doesn't , apart from the obvious bold new graphics? I know they claim a lot, but noticeable? honestly? Let me know your thoughts, for those with experience of the newer models and with experience between the repsol and base model please. Honest opinions appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjw123 Posted January 6, 2020 Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 " Bold New Graphics" says it all !!!!. Build quality peerless, but they still weigh in about the same as they did 15 years ago, unless your name is Toni. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted January 6, 2020 Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) Other than suspension and wheels its mostly small things stuff like foot peg brackets different so peg positions might be changed. The engine modifications to internals to lower compression braking etc. should all be the same on standard and Repsol with possible exception of maybe having a dual map switch on the Repsol and missing on the standard for some years/markets. In 2016 I believe was when they changed the fuel pump from the 14/15 so I would say to go 16+ Might be worth consideration. Side note: Stock throttle on all 4RT’s/300RR’s is black, I swapped mine for a white on both my 07 and my 300 and they both have a lot more bite of the bottom than standard so it’s possible your brother might have done the same? Edited January 6, 2020 by jonnyc21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monteeman Posted January 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 Thanks for the quick replies. Was there an issue with the 14/15 fuel pump? what year did they reduce engine braking, and is it noticable? was this the revamped 260 of 2014 ish. my old 4rt had a lot of engine braking and it could cause problems for me when I was just wanting to roll off the throttle and found it would almost stop dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted January 6, 2020 Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 2016 fuel pump change onwards I think was more a standardisation with maybe non montesa models - up to 15 is the same pump as on your earlier bikes. 260 less braking than the 250 and is noticeable , 301 is even less and think same mon the 2020 260’s but not ridden one. i had a std 260 2015 and put an ohlins on the back and s3 pipe and was top bike - and still cheaper than a repsol. Would put the s3 pipe on repsol either way. Put the bike to std to sell and sold bits for what I paid so win/ win/winner ??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 9 hours ago, monteeman said: Thanks for the quick replies. Was there an issue with the 14/15 fuel pump? what year did they reduce engine braking, and is it noticable? was this the revamped 260 of 2014 ish. my old 4rt had a lot of engine braking and it could cause problems for me when I was just wanting to roll off the throttle and found it would almost stop dead. On the fuel pump, if you believe the promotional documents it was to get a bit more pressure from the pump but I suspect jimmyl might be correct that it was also a standardization thing. As jimmyl indicated that the reduced engine braking is noticeable on the 260's in 2014+. Last I checked I didn't see any documentation that the 260's got the same update the 301 got on the engine braking. Though I am happy to be corrected if it did? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 Less engine braking is advertised in 2020 official specs. Mapping and breather altered?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monteeman Posted January 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 ive had montesas since 2002, when I got back into trials for the first time (did3 years in schoolboys, and had a bultaco Sherpa...that's how old I am lol). Altho they are not the lightest or most competitive bike, I did love my 4rt, even tho I had better results on my 315, theres just something about them. I think I will go with a year or two old model, either the base model or a repsol. depending on what comes up, within my budget. is there really much difference between these options, that a fat 53 year old would notice? I suspect the base model would be more than good enough for me...but im willing to listen to the voices of experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroke4stroke Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 Not the lightest? A lot lighter than the Sherpa you enjoyed. I have a 2009 250 and have test ridden both standard and Repsol 260s when they first came out, then a brief shot on the "silver" 260. Motorwise you might be able to convince yourself you could notice a subtle difference between years if you jumped from one to another but you won't be doing anything where the excellent standard suspension can't cope with ease (I couldn't tell any difference on the test ride terrain). I don't really notice the engine braking after over forty years on two strokes with the odd Enfield ride thrown in over the years. You'd have to pay me to take the dreadful Repsol colour scheme. Take it from a not so fat even older guy that you are as well getting the standard but, as always, you can only buy what is for sale so just buy what seems the best value for condition of what you see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monteeman Posted January 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) thanks for the honest opinion. I kinda agree about the repsol colour scheme, its bogging. I guess im gonna take your advice and see whats out there. im looking for something with very little use, like new condition, or maybe even treat myself to a spanking new one...ive had enough of buying others peoples problems, by buying cheap....I see last yr models for 5300 on the bay......new...…. Edited January 7, 2020 by monteeman 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 There’s a few 300rr’s about go on spoil yourself ?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monteeman Posted January 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 my brother has just bought one. (a 300rr). its mint. Having a shot of it was the spark that re-ignited my enthusiasm. it was really nice, but a little bit too much oomph off the bottom of the throttle for me on map 1 - too snappy. I ride sections slowly compared to a lot of riders. I tried both maps and found map 2 (supposedly the faster/ more fiery map) easier to ride off the bottom of the throttle for some reason , maybe I was just getting used to it... the suspension on it was very, very good, but I never rode it through any sections, was just dicking about up some steps etc. My riding skills or lack of, wouldn't justify the extra expense/ or poke of a 300rr to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 The more you actually ride the 300 it becomes much easier to ride than a 260 as it is much smoother and better torque. never felt the 300 had more power than a 260 due to its smoothness but as you say it is a bit more money. fyi I believe the larger button on the map switch is the more aggressive map 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Reggie Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 Monteeman, I have been down the same track just recently. Bought an immaculate 2016 Repsol and then recently changed to a 300RR. Couldn't resist, and I do think it is easier to ride, plus nothing wrong with being over-biked ? I would advise anyone to go and find a little used example (2016 plus), as I did - no regrets. I found that there are plenty of really good 4RTs and Repsols that fit the bill, most 300s were well used when I was originally looking, although plenty of nearly new around now. I reckon the Repsols hold their value a little better, plus the all Showa suspension is really plush. You would notice the difference in feel, but will it make you a better rider?? Probably not. Personally, I like the Repsol colours but am not a fan of the 2020 example. The 2020 4RT does look nice tho"...... ? Good luck, buy well and won't go far wrong. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) On 1/6/2020 at 10:05 PM, jimmyl said: 2016 fuel pump change onwards I think was more a standardisation with maybe non montesa models - up to 15 is the same pump as on your earlier bikes. 260 less braking than the 250 and is noticeable , 301 is even less and think same mon the 2020 260’s but not ridden one. i had a std 260 2015 and put an ohlins on the back and s3 pipe and was top bike - and still cheaper than a repsol. Would put the s3 pipe on repsol either way. Put the bike to std to sell and sold bits for what I paid so win/ win/winner ??? If I was buying today, I would buy the stock over the Repsol (although I have a 250 Repsol today) as they both have dual mapping and on the 2020 Repsol a lot of the previous carbon goodies have been ommitted on the 2020 Repsol Like Jimmy said, I would stick a rear Ohlins or TRP shock on and if I was feeling extravagant a pair of Showa forks on too I have a lot of new Repsol Carbon bits, in the garage anyway - so would just add them to a stock 2020 bike and I have a spare pair of new DID wheels too Edited January 10, 2020 by johnnyboxer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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