faussy Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, b40rt said: Levity, wasted. However anodised snail cams defiantly make your suspension work better. (thats a joke, again) Danielle's bike is interesting, with footrests moved forward, and a garelli back box. Why do you imagine all the works bikes (that I've seen) have this mod ? I have bikes with backward facing brake arm, forward facing arm, and fantic 300 brake plate. Hard to do a scientific test as they are all used and have different brake linings and brake cables. But in my examples the best is the fantic, followed with forward facing and last rear facing. You still haven't stated your explanation of why a forward facing arm is different from a backward facing arm other than fashion, and better cable routing. Im waiting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, b40rt said: Forward facing arm, better mechanical advantage. How so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 1 minute ago, b40rt said: forces on shoes taking greater advantage of self servo effect. Ive already told you that a forward arm applies less force to the leading shoe. Why do you think a forward arm applies more force? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, b40rt said: You actually said it was marginal, your taking one component in isolation, not the overall effect. Why do you think a forward arm applies more force? x2 Edited February 18, 2020 by faussy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 27 minutes ago, b40rt said: forces on shoes taking greater advantage of self servo effect. This isn't an explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, b40rt said: Think I've given enough theory, and practical first hand observations. You sum argument would appear to be a 'marginal" difference by reversing the arm. You refuse to deny that the overall effect could be advantageous. Think you're just being stubborn. I know the overall effect, i just want you to explain, why you think that, regardless of cable route, a forward arm would apply more force. You're hiding behind overall effect, and being really vague. You cant calculate anything on vagueness. Can you calculate the decrease in cable friction to see if it counters the decrease in moment at the cam interface? Edited February 18, 2020 by faussy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, b40rt said: I'm not interested in your fixation in calculating things to the nth degree, overall effect is all. Incidentally, as your obviously an expert in swm / Aprilia with this setup, there is another excellent reason to reroute the front brake cable that has nothing to do with efficiency. Go on surprise me. You continue to divert. You went the whole way from quoting google to just falling back to cable rerouting. Im not an expert on SWM, i just know how moments work very well Edited February 18, 2020 by faussy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, b40rt said: According to fussy, genuinely, spell checker turns faussy to fussy ???? Anyway, according to fussy, bees can't fly. Now we are on to bees. Let me know when you want to discuss brake arm moments Edited February 18, 2020 by faussy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, b40rt said: Well fussy, the good reason to move the cable to the front, which I'm surprised an expert hadn't calculated while working on brake arm / cable movements, is during its tortuous travels from lever to brake arm, it passes through the bottom yoke cutting a nice big groove. Would you risk the yokes failing to prove your point, whatever it was ? So now your reason is because the cable rubs the yoke? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) On 2/18/2020 at 4:12 PM, faussy said: i just know how moments work very well Loved that film you were in with Robert Redford , was that before or after mash ? Edited November 30, 2020 by b40rt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) To give the OP a final answer from me, for new shoes, the guy was right, a forward arm; whilst making the leading shoe touch with less force, will make the leading shoe touch first which is arguably advantageous. However for bedded in shoes, both leading and trailing shoes should touch at the same time, meaning its negligible. Edited February 18, 2020 by faussy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisse Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 I would hate to interupt this budding bromance... but my SWM has a forward facing brake arm as all the Swm anoraks here in France including certain ex national and world champs from this neck of the woods did it ..and .. my Puma Bultaco was built with one too.. by some would say one of the best classic bike builders there is... just my two euro's worth.. looked for you Ross on saturday ... were you there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 1 hour ago, metisse said: I would hate to interupt this budding bromance... but my SWM has a forward facing brake arm as all the Swm anoraks here in France including certain ex national and world champs from this neck of the woods did it ..and .. my Puma Bultaco was built with one too.. by some would say one of the best classic bike builders there is... just my two euro's worth.. looked for you Ross on saturday ... were you there. Hi Hamish, was going till about Thursday, then with the weather and 5 hours each way, chickened out. Sorry to have missed you, hope you enjoyed it ? The original poster, siht stirred that he is, is a friend of long standing, I look upon him as a long term project, care in the trials community, as it were..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanorbust Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 3 hours ago, b40rt said: Trouble is Simon, your also falling into the trap of ignoring practical use. In your example, the curved arm would be better if it gave greater clearance to the bottom of the fork leg, allowing greater travel than a straight unit. Now if you wish to be pedantic, you will ignore the minor details such as this. Yamaha front drums suffered from this !! Yes, sure, I should've noted that there was a reason for curved arms, ie clearance for forks or end of swinging arm. It doesn't impact on the point which started this thread, just included it as an aside. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 2 hours ago, b40rt said: Loved that film you were in with Robert Redford , was that before or after mash ? Surprised you twigged that on. Sometimes i feel my association with that character doesnt help when trying to come across well ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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