al_orange Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 I've just watched the BVM footage from the event. I'm sure there's a high degree of organisation and logistics involved but why on earth didn't they re-schedule it? Or it that just not done for GB events? Looks like a waste of time and effort for all involved. Sure, it's meant to be tough but I can't imagine anyone either riding, spectating, or observing enjoyed it in any way. Or is that not the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) On 10/10/2020 at 10:31 AM, on it said: After reading replies I stand corrected about easing the BRITISH TRIALS CHAMPIONSHIP course,as pointed out " its the blue ribbon of trials, the riders need pushing to there limit , we DO have national trials to get riders to a level to ride BTC We need hard events were the elite riders in the country get to show there skills off to joe public and these riders need pushing if there going to make it on the world stage "!. SO by all means keep the British Trials Championship Hard for a elite group of 6 or so riders im sure its a winning formula ! as its working so well at WTC what can go wrong . Time to bust some peoples bubble trials can survive without the elite riders No one has said it works well or a winning formula, its a compromise and simply the hardest route for the best riders, several have tried respectfully to explain this but just cos you disagree doesn't mean youre right? Decreasing the severity will not increase overall participation by one rider afaik, who would jump up from the second route and would the top WTC lads just not bother with the BTC that was dead easy? Can trials survive without an elite class, of course it can. Is it good for the sport to have a world and British elite class, well yes. Many in the sport or business want it. My biggest objection to your point and dismissal of the BTC or WTC is that if anyone is ever good enough aren't they entitled (pun intended) to have a crack at the best and see if they can ride at a level 99.99% of us can only dream of, and who would want to stop them in our sport? Edited October 14, 2020 by nigel dabster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 Acting and drama can survive without Hollywood superstars but do you want to watch the am dram pantomime on a Saturday night prime tv ?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on it Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 4 hours ago, nigel dabster said: Decreasing the severity will not increase overall participation by one rider afaik, who would jump up from the second route and would the top WTC lads just not bother with the BTC that was dead easy? So decreasing severity will not increase participation ? so why have we had to do we do it at club level with all the courses ? well some of these riders are happy to go and ride a national & as you point out whos going to jump up from the second route well why bother to run the second route then ? ,If these are the "elite riders" they will win no matter what hard or easy what is the point of the sport getting to the point were 99.99% do not even relate to it any more if you want to see them do all the tricks go to the circus or watch them on saturday night prime tv BGT ! 4 minutes ago, jimmyl said: Acting and drama can survive without Hollywood superstars but do you want to watch the am dram pantomime on a Saturday night prime tv ?? well i would say yes why not i would give it a go might be better than whats on TV NOW bit like the BTC & WTC wont know till you give it a try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 8 hours ago, on it said: So decreasing severity will not increase participation ? Absolutely not at BTC and WTC bothe series try to maintain severity so people at the top lose marks. so why have we had to do we do it at club level with all the courses ? You dont if the level is set correctly well some of these riders are happy to go and ride a national & as you point out whos going to jump up from the second route well why bother to run the second route then ? Because the severity is set for that level of rider, or that type of rider Ross Danby and Sam Haslam for instance. ,If these are the "elite riders" they will win no matter what hard or easy what is the point of the sport getting to the point were 99.99% do not even relate to it any more if you want to see them do all the tricks go to the circus or watch them on saturday night prime tv BGT ! You are making a leap from being able to ride something hard to not being interested in watching it. As illustrated above thats just not logical. BTC at the rounds Ive been to recently a fair few spectators. Its clearly not for everyone but whats the alternative? 8 hours ago, on it said: well i would say yes why not i would give it a go might be better than whats on TV NOW bit like the BTC & WTC wont know till you give it a try Were not discussing TV are we, that was an analogy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 13 hours ago, nigel dabster said: No one has said it works well or a winning formula, its a compromise and simply the hardest route for the best riders, several have tried respectfully to explain this but just cos you disagree doesn't mean youre right? Decreasing the severity will not increase overall participation by one rider afaik, who would jump up from the second route and would the top WTC lads just not bother with the BTC that was dead easy? Can trials survive without an elite class, of course it can. Is it good for the sport to have a world and British elite class, well yes. Many in the sport or business want it. My biggest objection to your point and dismissal of the BTC or WTC is that if anyone is ever good enough aren't they entitled (pun intended) to have a crack at the best and see if they can ride at a level 99.99% of us can only dream of, and who would want to stop them in our sport? @b40rt why confused? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 7 hours ago, nigel dabster said: My biggest objection to your point and dismissal of the BTC or WTC is that if anyone is ever good enough aren't they entitled (pun intended) to have a crack at the best and see if they can ride at a level 99.99% of us can only dream of, and who would want to stop them in our sport? The world rounds are as relevant to many as football ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on it Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, nigel dabster said: Absolutely not at BTC and WTC bothe series try to maintain severity so people at the top lose marks. so with that thinking set the trial for 1 man /woman and forget about the rest of the entry 10 hours ago, nigel dabster said: You dont if the level is set correctly so your saying the level is not set correctly due to having the second course ? 10 hours ago, nigel dabster said: Because the severity is set for that level of rider, or that type of rider Ross Danby and Sam Haslam for instance. have these riders both rode BTC /elite riders ? 10 hours ago, nigel dabster said: You are making a leap from being able to ride something hard to not being interested in watching it. As illustrated above thats just not logical. BTC at the rounds Ive been to recently a fair few spectators. Its clearly not for everyone but whats the alternative well the alternative is not bother to go and watch which seems to be the case , 10 hours ago, nigel dabster said: Were not discussing TV are we, that was an analogy. did I bring TV up no I DID NOT ! As for the top riders wanting hard sections to be pushed to there limit for the good and benefit of the sport ? I feel its more good and benefit to there pocket wage/sponsorship as hard sections few can ride keep there advantage going Edited October 15, 2020 by on it add Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 On 10/13/2020 at 12:36 PM, al_orange said: I've just watched the BVM footage from the event. I'm sure there's a high degree of organisation and logistics involved but why on earth didn't they re-schedule it? Or it that just not done for GB events? Looks like a waste of time and effort for all involved. Sure, it's meant to be tough but I can't imagine anyone either riding, spectating, or observing enjoyed it in any way. Or is that not the point? The calander is normally (not this year!) set in stone around late october / november time - once an event has a date, further calanders (clubs, local events, etc) are built around it and trade offs are made (clash with the SSDT yes/no, clash with the local village fete, etc, etc). Once the ball is rolling its very difficult to stop. Even when bad weather comes in, the riders, venue, club, series prmototer, etc might already be committed elsewhere. As i understand it the BTC calander is set to avoid euro trial round and the WTC, then they set the BTC (around other tentpole events like the scottish, scott, etc). Then others that ineract are set around it - eg ladies and youth rounds (some competitors do both). As i've aluded too there are often local considerations on the venue or the club (other events going on). Really we are in the UK and expect bad weather - we canceled a big event at the last minute last year in the face of simialr weather and took a lot of flack for it, however most consider trials a more all weather sport normally going on regardless of the weather. the organisers are dammed if the do or don't cancel and (would) have suffered either way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 it takes weeks of planning for BTC (and other nationals /big events) (even a club trials takes a few weeks to organise ) so once the event date is committed to it is very hard to stop and start again on another date even if riders are free, land owner agrees. There are observers/officials etc to sort out again, First aid, Food van, Toilets etc etc That's without looking at the sections etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 16, 2020 Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 14 hours ago, on it said: so with that thinking set the trial for 1 man /woman and forget about the rest of the entry no, 3 routes try to set a course to suit each level and get a winner so your saying the level is not set correctly due to having the second course ? No, im answering your point where you said the courses were eased for clubman. Many trials i ride have 4 routes have these riders both rode BTC /elite riders ? You're commenting on BTC and you dont know these twos palmares? well the alternative is not bother to go and watch which seems to be the case , Again, seems to be, how many btc's or wtc's have you seen 18/19? did I bring TV up no I DID NOT ! As for the top riders wanting hard sections to be pushed to there limit for the good and benefit of the sport ? Who mentioned limit? I feel its more good and benefit to there pocket wage/sponsorship as hard sections few can ride keep there advantage going Their pockets arent filling up with sponsorship money for sure, and the severity would make no difference to that anyway. im done here you are not listening, read back your previous post where you mentioned BGT on a saturday night, you did mention tv. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on it Posted October 16, 2020 Report Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, nigel dabster said: im done here you are not listening, GREAT as we are talking about BTC "BTC " the best in the country stand out but it has had to turn into a normal trial multi course to keep running due to the lack of entry (the point of the forum) but i still can not see what the point of sections so hard the top boys taking 5s or3s on them Edited October 16, 2020 by on it add 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted October 17, 2020 Report Share Posted October 17, 2020 On 10/16/2020 at 9:56 AM, on it said: GREAT as we are talking about BTC "BTC " the best in the country stand out but it has had to turn into a normal trial multi course to keep running due to the lack of entry (the point of the forum) but i still can not see what the point of sections so hard the top boys taking 5s or3s on them None of the top boys asked for a 5 in St David's last year - if anything they wanted it harder ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on it Posted October 17, 2020 Report Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, jimmyl said: None of the top boys asked for a 5 in St David's last year - if anything they wanted it harder ??? Ok All lost marks and wanted it harder ! "all my long years trialing will never understand that " loose marks your NOT good enough to clean that section so the section was more than hard enough for you .! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 18, 2020 Report Share Posted October 18, 2020 8 hours ago, on it said: Ok All lost marks and wanted it harder ! "all my long years trialing will never understand that " loose marks your NOT good enough to clean that section so the section was more than hard enough for you .! You really dont understand that do you? (Look back at British Championship events in the golden age of the 70's marks lost then were usually nearer a 100) (Its you're not your btw) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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