Fortuna Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 Dear Sirs, Some help identifying these machines would be appreciated. I’ve been trying to get to the bottom of it by the frames. The frame number of the red one points to a standard 60’s 250, but when I look at photographs of the bikes around the same year, the frame looks different. The blue one has no frame number that I can find, but looks to be nickel plated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamferret Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 the red one is knackered and the blue one is newer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 Both frames look like model M80 Sherpa from 71/72. (but could also be Alpina frames) Red one has a front wheel from an earlier model or something else, hard to see. Blue one has forks and front wheel from the next model, M91 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry s. k. Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 (edited) Hi ya there , look early 70 ish Croam frame , what lucky find there was another Sherpa croam year back , he found numbers left side top under gas tank , I not bul expert , have noticed few croam , ? Frames ,bultaco , another mf other than, , from Sammy m. Floating around , , it’s a nice barn fine , Larry Seattle ,,, cheers ps ,, there’s prob 1000+. bultaco people excluding me would like to own a croam bultaco , the cat out of the bag , three custom bike MF , Sammy Miller , mick Whitlock , Steve Wilson ,, I found on line ,,, have good Christmas Edited December 20, 2020 by larry s. k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvisrock Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Nice projects, Good finds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortuna Posted January 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Thanks all. I can’t really claim them as a find, they’ve been in my garage for many years. Looking to sell them on to create some room, I haven’t got around to it yet due to the lack of knowledge/info on them. I’ve put the hours in in google but still none the wiser. I’ll have a look for numbers under the tank on the blue one, thanks. Hiw would I identify the Alpina frame against a regular frame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 You need the engine and frame numbers to identify which model exactly. The frame number is on the headstock not under the tank. The engine number is on the r/h crankcase under the exhaust. Early model Alpina had the same frame as a Sherpa which is why you need numbers to identify From the pictures they both look like 1971 Sherpas which was a model 80 ie: the frame and engine number would be B-80###### M-80###### Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortuna Posted January 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Thanks Woody, I remember that the red one has a number on the stock, I vaguely remember managing to work it out on a Bultaco enthusiasts page where the numbers are listed. The issue was that when I looked up photos of the year and model listed, the looked slightly different. I thought perhaps it had undergone some sort of conversion by kit or what have you. As for the blue one, there are no numbers on the stock. I will have a look for some engine numbers. I was trying to identify it by the nickel frame, and it has the same light weight look tank/seat as the red one. Do you know if this is factory or is it a Miller kit or similar? As someone pointed out, the front end is slightly different on the blue one too. I don’t know if it’s just slightly newer or it’s a special model or something. Could you tell me what exactly the Alpina model is? Was it a separate company that modified from the factory or was it an in-house works model or? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 Red one (both) will look different from how it was when new as it has been repainted, probably more than once. Catalogue pictures will show you how it left the factory. The numbers are the way to accurately identify it. It's 1971 era frame but it has the wrong front wheel, maybe one from an earlier model, I can't tell from the picture. If the blue one has no number on the headstock it's either been removed or it was a replacement frame from the factory as a replacement would be unlikely to have a number stamped. Maybe the number got polished out in the preparation stages of plating. This is also a 1971 era frame, it is Bultaco not Miller. As I mentioned in a previous comment the forks and front wheel are from a 1972 model It would help if you put the numbers that you have on here if you're not sure how to check them. otherwise you're going to go around in circles The Alpina was the trail bike version of the Sherpa. Early models of both looked virtually identical apart from the Alpina having a similar but larger tank 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortuna Posted February 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) Thanks Woody, On the blue one I have found an engine number M-80011** I think that points to a Sherpa T250 (4T Model 1A) if I’m correct? 1971 The frame number on the red one is 80011**(different end digits to blue engine) which points to the same model 1971? This one is also road registered, checked the number plate and is registered 1971 Edited February 15, 2021 by Fortuna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
model80 Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 14 hours ago, Fortuna said: Thanks Woody, On the blue one I have found an engine number M-80011** I think that points to a Sherpa T250 (4T Model 1A) if I’m correct? 1971 The frame number on the red one is 80011**(different end digits to blue engine) which points to the same model 1971? This one is also road registered, checked the number plate and is registered 1971 Yes, I would have said M80 Sherpa T 250, they were manufactured from Sept 1971 to March 1972. Lovely bikes, plenty of spare parts available to do a full restoration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortuna Posted February 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 Thanks Model80, I know, surprised to find that near enough every bolt is available. This won’t be a project for me though unfortunately, I have a couple of projects on the go and these are going to make some much needed room. Do you or anyone else have an idea of value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
model80 Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 7 hours ago, Fortuna said: Thanks Model80, I know, surprised to find that near enough every bolt is available. This won’t be a project for me though unfortunately, I have a couple of projects on the go and these are going to make some much needed room. Do you or anyone else have an idea of value? Bought a M 80 about 4 years ago in similar condition for €500 here in Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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