Classic British Bike - criteria

[stpauls]

British bikes.   What counts as being a Classic British trials bike?  I regularly speak to people who ride Bantams fitted with Yamaha? pistons.  Clutches that belong in Yamahas.  Shocks and levers etc from China.  Greeves bikes that were completely manufactured in the 21st century!  How about a C15 with a Honda motor fitted?  Or, an old C15 or Cub engine fitted into one of those brand new, light weight vintage style frames?  Where do clubs draw the line for entries into Classic and/or "British" trials bikes classes?

Any thoughts?

Edited December 21, 2020 by stpauls

[gazza7965]

http://www.bsaotter.com/pre_65_rules.html

[cleanorbust]

11 hours ago, stpauls said:

British bikes.   What counts as being a Classic British trials bike?  I regularly speak to people who ride Bantams fitted with Yamaha? pistons.  Clutches that belong in Yamahas.  Shocks and levers etc from China.  Greeves bikes that were completely manufactured in the 21st century!  How about a C15 with a Honda motor fitted?  Or, an old C15 or Cub engine fitted into one of those brand new, light weight vintage style frames?  Where do clubs draw the line for entries into Classic and/or "British" trials bikes classes?

Any thoughts?

That's a question which would have prompted several pages of debate not so long ago, but people seem to have run out of puff these days. Perhaps just jaded by it all.

[suzuki250]

The biggest problem is you can’t order spares from 1965, so people need remanufactured parts to keep them running!

[japes1275]

To me at least the frame, forks, hubs and engine should be British, pre 65 and original. Perhaps not necessarily from the same machine but at least from the same manufacturer. By original I don’t mean exactly as they were, that would be daft, but maintained with replacement parts in keeping with the age of the bike. Basically nothing more modified than the best works bikes of the era. 

 

The problem is is that the machines aren’t checked for eligibility with the regulations before each event and on top of that the regulations aren’t up to scratch. For example most regs say that replica frames and yokes are allowed. Replica by definition means a copy of. So which manufacturer in the sixties or earlier made frames by welding tubes together? And I don’t think yokes were made by machining holes in a lump of aluminium.

 

You easily buy and ride a genuine pre 65 British bike but unfortunately you would find yourself up against ridiculously over modified machines with new frames and superbly damped forks with double the movement. Don’t get me wrong there is a place for these over modified bikes but they shouldn’t be in the same class as the real bikes.

[collyolly]

The biggest problem I see is how many times a year do you want to ride your classic bike ?

If you are happy to just go to one or two special events a year then great keep your original ‘ pre 65 ‘bike in standard trim, but if you want regular outings you either have to accept that you won’t find sections and similar bikes to ride against as they are simply not there any more. You have to realise the pre 65 movement was started 45 years ago, the sport has moved on, most of those original bikes and competitors are no longer out there and organisers have enough on their plates without yet another class.

When I got my bike near on 20 years ago there was a healthy classic class down here in the south east so much so that we had separate classes for pre unit , unit , two stroke , and rigid bikes , now we have to lump them all in with the occasional twin shock just to get a handful to call a class for competition !

I decided that I wanted to ride regularly so my bike is competitive on the route the novices ride, there is no way I could ride the intermediate route as whatever you do to one of these bikes it still weighs at least 50% and in the case of my pre-unit 100% more than a modern bike, they go uphill very well it’s the coming down that’s the problem.

 

 

[japes1275]

All very true Colly, basically the horse has bolted on regulating things.

My argument isn’t against modifying the bikes, it’s the fact that anything goes and so it means bikes with lesser mods aren’t as competitive. I actually like the really well modified bikes and can see why people want to ride them (apart from Bantams!). Let’s face it pre 65 trials tends to be an older persons sport so as we get older a nice Cub is going to appeal more than a big pre unit.

Its a difficult sport to make things suit everyone. The wider the difference between classes and machines mean the requirement to have more routes which is a lot of work for the clerk of the course. It’s easy on a race track for example, you can run an event with 10 races ranging from mopeds to GP bikes all on the same bit of tarmac!

But my basic point still stands, the main parts of the machine should have been made in the pre 65 era (or be exact copies of) with modifications allowed depending on class.

 

[on it]

With pre 65  your wanting  a level playing field rule that is easy to implement = simple  have a maximum ground clearance  how to do that well  by means of bolting blocks of wood to frame/bash plate if needed to give correct ground clearance as with F1 cars 

[collyolly]

As said above, this subject has ‘run out of puff’, any form of mechanical regulation as per the wooden block suggested above will only further reduce the entry and in fact only affect the lesser rider.

You get your eyes opened to the ability of the top riders when you see 90 degree air turns on a pre unit AJAY / Ariel, a bit of wood won’t stop them it will just make sections harder for everyone else!

[on it]

55 minutes ago, collyolly said:

As said above, this subject has ‘run out of puff’, any form of mechanical regulation as per the wooden block suggested above will only further reduce the entry and in fact only affect the lesser rider.

You get your eyes opened to the ability of the top riders when you see 90 degree air turns on a pre unit AJAY / Ariel, a bit of wood won’t stop them it will just make sections harder for everyone else!

theres things that can be done in all aspects of trials  only thing holding it back is how much people want to enforce the rules 

[b40rt]

49 minutes ago, on it said:

theres things that can be done in all aspects of trials  only thing holding it back is how much people want to enforce the rules 

I prefer to watch trick bikes being ridden, than original bikes being polished ?

[brian0304]

It’s only a bit of fun.. even if the bikes were dead original, with pre-units and bantams often lumped in together, it’s never going to be a level playing field. It’s been done to death on here, with the loudest voices usually being those that don’t ride British bikes every week anyway 

[stpauls]

Thanks for all the replies.  All valid and food for thought.  

My reason for asking was to help me decide whether to keep it pretty much as standard, or to modify it to make it more competitive or even just ridable in the easiest of sections. 

[still trying]

here's a thought; Is winning that important. Or is enjoying riding your machine the point. 

 

[b40rt]

44 minutes ago, still trying said:

here's a thought; Is winning that important. Or is enjoying riding your machine the point. 

 

If winning was all, most of us wouldn't compete ?