Sherpa 198A kickstart

[JonnyWobbles]

Merry Christmas!

Well the Sherpa is finally back together and after a short run up the road in a hailstorm all seems to be working OK. However, my initial difficulty in kickstarting the bike before I stripped her down remains. Surely it can’t be right that the kickstart (which is already high for my short legs) hits the frame (so much for new powder coating!) then the brake pedal and obviously the footpeg is also in the way and catches your heal even if you hitch it up?

Is there a solution I.e. an alternative base pivoting or cranked lever that has some additional clearance? I’m used to kickstarting my T140V Bonneville but that doesn’t hit anything on the way down! Help please!

[feetupfun]

The kickstart lever it not meant to go past the footpeg or brake pedal tip.

Maybe post up a photo showing the kickstart side of the bike.

 

[woody]

 It's not uncommon. On A and B models the kickstart is closer to the frame as the shaft is shorter. If either the kickstart itself or the shaft have the slightest of bends in them it will catch the frame or brake pedal. I have three B Sherpas and it catches on each of them

If everything is working correctly the bikes start so easily that your heel hitting the footrest shouldn't matter, the kickstart doesn't need to rotate further than the footrest. Use the clutch to get the kickstart into a comfortable position and then fiddle with it to get the piston to TDC. Then let the kickstart up as high as is comfortable and give it a sharp push rather than kicking and thrashing at it. If everything with the engine is as it should be it should fire up with one kick. It's thrashing and kicking at it that can bend things inwards towards the frame

There is no alternative lever that bends away from the frame

[sherpa325]

Woody is right the kickstart will nick the frame on the 199A & B models, the kickstart shaft is shorter by about 10mm to accommodate the narrower late model ignition cover, but they didn't narrow the frame so hence the problem

[feetupfun]

I know of someone who fitted a shortened OSSA MAR kickstart lever to their 198A and I had wondered why but this is probably why (it has the swivel joint at the bottom end, providing more clearance)

[JonnyWobbles]

Ah thanks that explains it. It’s early days so I no doubt will develop the right technique, but due to the height of the lever and the fact that it’s at about 12 o’clock when engaged, struggle getting my leg high enough (I’m 5’8”) so inevitably take it down past the frame etc. It’s a problem in my garage so will only be more difficult on a trial etc. (Not done one yet!).

Feked sell a lever that https://www.feked.com/bultaco-kickstart-lever-assembly-curved-type-for-later-sherpa-and-pursang-models.html

is ‘cranked for clearance for later Sherpa model’ has anyone tried one.

Other than that does anyone else make a left hand pivoted lever with 13 mm splined shaft?

[JonnyWobbles]

Thanks feet up! Our posts crossed. I’ll look into the Ossa lever. I think the swivel bottom is the way to go, I have seen an old post that mentions a Sammy Miller one but after trawling the internet struggling finding one with a 13mm shaft which fits to left.

[feetupfun]

1 hour ago, JonnyWobbles said:

Ah thanks that explains it. It’s early days so I no doubt will develop the right technique, but due to the height of the lever and the fact that it’s at about 12 o’clock when engaged, struggle getting my leg high enough (I’m 5’8”) so inevitably take it down past the frame etc. It’s a problem in my garage so will only be more difficult on a trial etc. (Not done one yet!).

Feked sell a lever that https://www.feked.com/bultaco-kickstart-lever-assembly-curved-type-for-later-sherpa-and-pursang-models.html

is ‘cranked for clearance for later Sherpa model’ has anyone tried one.

Other than that does anyone else make a left hand pivoted lever with 13 mm splined shaft?

Yes I had a cranked one on a Bultaco. It was fine. You could put a crank in yours if you didn't want to buy one

Edited December 28, 2020 by feetupfun

[feetupfun]

Be careful there are two different OSSA splines

[woody]

2 hours ago, JonnyWobbles said:

Ah thanks that explains it. It’s early days so I no doubt will develop the right technique, but due to the height of the lever and the fact that it’s at about 12 o’clock when engaged, struggle getting my leg high enough (I’m 5’8”) so inevitably take it down past the frame etc. It’s a problem in my garage so will only be more difficult on a trial etc. (Not done one yet!).

Feked sell a lever that https://www.feked.com/bultaco-kickstart-lever-assembly-curved-type-for-later-sherpa-and-pursang-models.html

is ‘cranked for clearance for later Sherpa model’ has anyone tried one.

Other than that does anyone else make a left hand pivoted lever with 13 mm splined shaft?

Those kickstarts are for the early Sherpas, not later, they fit the 4 speed and first 5 speed models. They bend inwards so if you fit that on your A model it really will clout the frame

[JonnyWobbles]

Thanks all. I think a bit of blacksmithing to give a bit of clearance would give a temporary solution and give me some time to research a better fix! There hardly any chrome left on the lever so not an issue!

[section swept]

When you look at the arc that the kickstart travels through (say from 12 o’clock) by the time the kick start lever has met the footrest any further rotation would be lost effort it just feels as though you are achieving greater leverage by ‘kicking through’ so to speak. You can compare this action to tightening a nut or bolt, once you reach 90 degrees thats the maximum effective leverage unless you are superman. As Woody states, with the bike set up correctly (engine wise) it should burst into life at the second or third prod if not the first. All of my Bultacos kicked into life with relative ease thats 325, 350, 250 all on contact breakers, all had kick starts that met the footrest. Yes you get issues when you drop the bike but all things being equal they restart once you calm down and ensure everything is as it should be.

[woody]

5 hours ago, JonnyWobbles said:

Thanks feet up! Our posts crossed. I’ll look into the Ossa lever. I think the swivel bottom is the way to go, I have seen an old post that mentions a Sammy Miller one but after trawling the internet struggling finding one with a 13mm shaft which fits to left.

Sammy Miller never did the type of kickstart you're looking for

There is an aftermarket folding kickstart that has been recently made by someone in either France or Spain which is a copy of an aftermarket one that was produced years ago by a company called DOA. I don't know if they sold them all or how good they are but they were quite expensive. You'd have to get on one of the Bultaco forums on facebook and ask on there as there was a bit of discussion about them. The old DOA items are very rare and I don't know how good they were in terms of quality, I've heard it said they were poor.

What I did some years ago was cut off a Bultaco lever just above the spline. I did the same with a Beta Rev3 kickstart, cutting the knuckle just above the spline which left me with the swivel and lever. Then welded swivel to the Bultaco spline (it looked a lot like the DOA item) This gave a lever with a bottom swivel

You could do the same with an Ossa one but finding an Ossa kickstart won't be easy, they're also quite long. I'm guessing this or similar is what must have been done with the one that Feetupfun saw as an Ossa kickstart won't fit a Bultaco spline, it's way too big

 

[metisse]

The alloy kickstarts that Woody mentions above are avaliable via Albert Begada at Begada Classico's in Spain. They retail at around 275 euros. They are very well engineered,  I have one on my 325 199A.  Its been on around 6 months so far so good. 

[woody]

I was wrong about cranked kickstarts, I've just seen a picture of a kickstart from one of the Matador models, the SD, that is cranked outwards so that it avoids the exhaust