Bultaco 159 steering bearing

[woody]

5 minutes ago, sherpa325 said:

There is nothing actually wrong with the original ball/cup set up, they last indefinitely and require minimal maintenance in comparison to all my newer bikes which have the tapered roller setup.

I agree there is nothing wrong with the ball set up in terms of efficiency, for me it's just the inconvenience factor when removing and refitting yokes, it's just so much easier with the tapers. I've had the tapers in my bikes for years now though with no issues, only had to replace one set along the way and that was on a bike that has had a lot of use

[woody]

10 hours ago, trialsrfun said:

Simply Bearings Ltd ~ Oil Seals SKF FAG TIMKEN KOYO NTN NKE TRULOC Needle Rollers Taper Rollers Rod Ends Oil Filled Bushes Loose Balls O Rings Grease Plain Thrust

The above company are very helpful but why not buy from Inmotion Bultaco UK when they have them in stock?

Simply bearings don't stock that size. I haven't found anyone that does apart from Pyramid and then latterly In Motion which may well be the same bearings as Pyramid. 

[woody]

10 hours ago, pschrauber said:

I would try your local or special onlie bearing dealer, because, you often get no name bearings from our parts supplieres and I had issues with no name bearings, especially with wheel bearings and engine bearings, therefore I now only buy them from motorcycle part dealers if they can confirm my personal needs in terms of quality and brand.

I personal prefer FAG (German) bearings, then SKF (from Sweden), then NSK (from Japan), last not least INA also from Germany.

Who pays cheap pays twice ...

 

 

None of the main manufacturers supply this size bearing, it's not a standard size.  I agree about only using quality bearings in the engine and even wheels but the steering is under little stress and the no name steering bearings have lasted me  more than 10 years in some of my bikes with some hard use

[pschrauber]

15 hours ago, woody said:

None of the main manufacturers supply this size bearing, it's not a standard size.  I agree about only using quality bearings in the engine and even wheels but the steering is under little stress and the no name steering bearings have lasted me  more than 10 years in some of my bikes with some hard use

Of course you get them, probably not in your limited view of the world I don't know why you are posting this false information and believe me I don't want to know either.

First we call bearings that are custom made "Zeichnungslager" and in Germany and I think in most other countries too it is possible to get them (You might google them) even just one.

Now to the bearings of the steering steem which are called in Germaan "Axiallrillenkugellager" or "KT-Lager" and fare very common and found everywhere especially too from SKF or FAG and the other brands, here even with sizes and drawings an so on:
https://www.sturm-kugellager-shop.de/rillenkugellager/axial-rillenkugellager/kt../1682/axial-rillenkugellager-kt-25/dlg100/25?c=469

And here you gEt them, sadly right now sold out, one for just 5,90 € without tax and shipping!
https://www.sturm-kugellager-shop.de/rillenkugellager/axial-rillenkugellager/kt../1682/axial-rillenkugellager-kt-25/dlg100/25?c=469

And too in the opposite to what you stated in your post, as lower the movement of a bearing as more important it is that the bead of the bearing is of very hard material, as if the balls are only moving a little the force is not distributed evenly and thus put even more stress the bead as at a really rotating bearing. So here again you are sadly a bit too limited in your thinking or as we say "Hochmut kommt vor dem Fall", (haughtiness comes before the event).

As an explanation you might look up this page too, even in English albeit a German www page of a German Axialrillenkugellager manufacturer:
https://www.kuepper.eu/en/singel-direction-thrust-ball-bearing-kt-bearing.html

[carl ekblom]

As far as I can remember original are angular contact bearings without cage.

Axial capacity can be up to 50% of radial capacity in a deep grove radial bearing . That´s why they frequently use hem nowadays as steering bearings. Also in the past in Norton Commando (6205 I think). But I have not found any radial bearing that fit.

A tapered roller bearing is really not needed but I think original part is more expensive. Something like 100eur or so while the Pyramid part can be 1/3.

I don´t know about the radial load capacity for the axial bearing in mention. The manufacturer should be able to tell. Perhaps they can be made fit.

Original is 25x45x11 Pyramid is 25x45x12. KT25 is 25,3x43,5x11,8. My experience is that smallest play in the steering beam will show up as an annoying clunking.

[woody]

4 hours ago, pschrauber said:

Of course you get them, probably not in your limited view of the world I don't know why you are posting this false information and believe me I don't want to know either.

First we call bearings that are custom made "Zeichnungslager" and in Germany and I think in most other countries too it is possible to get them (You might google them) even just one.

Firstly, you do realise that both myself and the person who wants the bearings are in the UK don't you, so how would I be aware of some obscure German make of bearing. You will also note that their bearing size is measured in fractions, not whole numbers so how would I know to search for that, even if I was searching German companies. As for false information I never said they didn't exist, but that they were not available in the UK from local suppliers. If you look back through the Bultaco forum you will find others have said the same as they have been unable to find them either. I also suggested the person who wants them search for himself before using Pyramid if he wanted a known brand

Before you respond in such a sarcastic manner (limited view of the world) and then accuse me of posting false information why don't you google "bearing 25x45x11" and see what you get in the search results for the UK. Then have a look on the websites of FAG, SKF etc and see if they list a bearing in that size. Then contact a few UK bearing suppliers and ask them if they can supply that size bearing. Let us know how you get on and the name of any suppliers you find

I could ask why you didn't mention your supplier yesterday when you replied if you want to be helpful...

With respect to bearing stress loads etc I'm not an engineer so have no idea of what you're talking about and don't care. I replied to you agreeing that it is not a good idea to use cheap bearings in an engine. However, with my limited view of the world, I doubt a steering bearing is going to fail completely resulting in the forks falling off and serious injury to myself, so I was prepared to use a non-name brand. I have used Pyramid bearings in my steering for about 15 years and have never had a failure, they rarely go out of adjustment and I have only had to replace one set on a well used bike in all that time, and that was most likely due to water ingress from repeated pressure washing

[pschrauber]

17 hours ago, woody said:

Firstly, you do realise that both myself and the person who wants the bearings are in the UK don't you, so how would I be aware of some obscure German make of bearing. You will also note that their bearing size is measured in fractions, not whole numbers so how would I know to search for that, even if I was searching German companies. As for false information I never said they didn't exist, but that they were not available in the UK from local suppliers. If you look back through the Bultaco forum you will find others have said the same as they have been unable to find them either. I also suggested the person who wants them search for himself before using Pyramid if he wanted a known brand

Before you respond in such a sarcastic manner (limited view of the world) and then accuse me of posting false information why don't you google "bearing 25x45x11" and see what you get in the search results for the UK. Then have a look on the websites of FAG, SKF etc and see if they list a bearing in that size. Then contact a few UK bearing suppliers and ask them if they can supply that size bearing. Let us know how you get on and the name of any suppliers you find

I could ask why you didn't mention your supplier yesterday when you replied if you want to be helpful...

With respect to bearing stress loads etc I'm not an engineer so have no idea of what you're talking about and don't care. I replied to you agreeing that it is not a good idea to use cheap bearings in an engine. However, with my limited view of the world, I doubt a steering bearing is going to fail completely resulting in the forks falling off and serious injury to myself, so I was prepared to use a non-name brand. I have used Pyramid bearings in my steering for about 15 years and have never had a failure, they rarely go out of adjustment and I have only had to replace one set on a well used bike in all that time, and that was most likely due to water ingress from repeated pressure washing

You -to whatever reason- brought up false arguments and blamed my previous hints about this thread theme.

So I responded and prooved my hint and that consequently binned yours. Now you are angry and spinning even more a wheel. 

I have nothing to add to the technical theme. I am pleased with that conversation anyway as it improves my English conversation skills and I like to learn something everyday

[woody]

11 hours ago, pschrauber said:

You -to whatever reason- brought up false arguments and blamed my previous hints about this thread theme.

So I responded and prooved my hint and that consequently binned yours. Now you are angry and spinning even more a wheel. 

I have nothing to add to the technical theme. I am pleased with that conversation anyway as it improves my English conversation skills and I like to learn something everyday

ok, I'll try and explain this just once, as I think that as English isn't your first language you misunderstood what I said.  And I don't mean that to criticise your English as it is good, but misunderstanding happens from one language to another.

You suggested trying a local supplier or online specialist. Myself and others have done that and in the UK we cannot find the bearings apart from Pyramid and In Motion. I was talking about the UK. and saying that we can't get them here. They are not listed on FAG, SKF or any other sites. That is all I meant, not to criticise you

If you have been able to find them in the UK people would be interested to know

[pschrauber]

"The World is Flat" is a titel of an in English written book from 2005, quite an best seller and since then we know we should look over our own rim of the plate especially if we are wrenching to a motorcycle that was made in Spain and where the factory used much of their normativ basics based on German DIN norm.

If I buy things I still try to buy them locally and when I want special stuff I buy it there where the chance of biggest variety and most of them are used is obvious.

In this particular case, my hint to you and all the others is to ask the next farming equipment supplier you have in your town, they should have it or can organize them all, from thrust ball bearings to radial pivot bearings and brass bushings, think just about one hey tedder and you find a lot of moving parts that have to work even in the dirtiest and dustiest environment ... where to find them is a question to your phone assistance which I' am not.