One For Stopping

[atomant]

Under 'non-stop' rules it would have been a simple 5 for stopping.

Is there not some merit in going back to full non stop?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, Because its too severe a penalty as discussed above. Some people will argue no-stop but we dont do it now (as stated above), the rest of the world dont do it so move on I say and make a positive change. After all, the object of most sunday riders is to have some fun. No one wants a huge score do they? Start coming down heavy and they wont want to come out to play. !! Is that we want??

[gizza5]

No, Because its too severe a penalty as discussed above. Some people will argue no-stop but we dont do it now (as stated above), the rest of the world dont do it so move on I say and make a positive change.

We do do it, the SSDT is a shining example back in the 90's when the sections were made for the ''Balerina's'', scaped together 167 entries one year this continued until the club made the bold step to go back to the old rules.

Now look at it over subscribed 450+

Maybe we should go back, it has worked in the SSDT.

Another way to look at it, I was at a trial on Sunday got talking to a guy who turned up on a BMW GS (I happen to have got one aswell)to have a look.

Is this guy, maybe going to go out and buy a trials bike:

1. If he watches someone hopping and skipping, thinking NO way could I ever do that

or

2. If he watches a no stop trial, and thinking YES maybe I could do a bit of that

I think the answer is 2, more bums on bikes will only help our sport to be more recognised. We don't have to follow 'Johny Foreigner' just because we think it is the way forward, we will be getting the EURO next

[scorpa3]

Under 'non-stop' rules it would have been a simple 5 for stopping.

Is there not some merit in going back to full non stop?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, Because its too severe a penalty as discussed above. Some people will argue no-stop but we dont do it now (as stated above), the rest of the world dont do it so move on I say and make a positive change. After all, the object of most sunday riders is to have some fun. No one wants a huge score do they? Start coming down heavy and they wont want to come out to play. !! Is that we want??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The whole point of entering a competition is to enjoy yourself whilst trying to win (or come as high up as you can in the results). The number of points lost is not the issue.

I'm sure riders really would stay away if everyone finished on zero!

I believe full 'non-stop' is the easiest system to explain to a new rider and to a willing observer.

[atomant]

We do do it, the SSDT is a shining example back in the 90's when the sections were made for the ''Balerina's'', scaped together 167 entries one year this continued until the club made the bold step to go back to the old rules.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I knew the SSDT would come up but it is a one off and maybe for traditional reasons it stays a non-stop event.

1. If he watches someone hopping and skipping, thinking NO way could I ever do that

You see that at every trial you go to from the experts/inters but the rest of the lower classess down dont do that. Also, the beginners route is nearly always non-stop by design and virtually anyone could ride a beginners route!

Trials is excellent as it covers all capabilities and ages and you can ride the route that your capability allows. All I'm saying is dont have a scoring system thats too severe and I believe non-stop is.

[gizza5]

I am old enough and fortunate enough to have ridden most rules, all I am saying is that by a huge margin No stop is easier to ride and easier to observe

[atomant]

I am old enough and fortunate enough to have ridden most rules, all I am saying is that by a huge margin No stop is easier to ride and easier to observe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I respect your argument but none of the kids I know have ridden non-stop so it would be a complete different change for them wouldnt it! I rode it back in the early 80's but much prefer how we do it now. ( see above )

[perce]

I am old enough and fortunate enough to have ridden most rules, all I am saying is that by a huge margin No stop is easier to ride and easier to observe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I respect your argument but none of the kids I know have ridden non-stop so it would be a complete different change for them wouldnt it! I rode it back in the early 80's but much prefer how we do it now. ( see above )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps you need to have a little look out from your own part of the world & see what other people do.

[atomant]

Perhaps you need to have a little look out from your own part of the world & see what other people do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, Lets look outside of the UK and we see all the other significant players fall under FIM rules I believe. (correct me if I am wrong). As I see it its a minority in the UK that would like Non-Stop.

Perce, you help run a club, ask them to make all their trials non-stop and see what happens. If the riders of all ages like it then I wouldn't hesitate to agree with it. After all, Its just my opnion based on what I have seen and my experience of riding non-stop in the past.

[perce]

But the problem is that the rules that the FIM are running make events more & more for the very few that can do it & eventually the events will become unsustainable. How many UK Trials clubs can/will stump up the cash to run a world round circus anyway? We won't & I'd say we're flusher than most.

I think our club beat the SSDT in returning our #1 event the Scott to full no stop rules, it means we have event for all levels of ability, it simply didn't work on the hop & bop rules & was dying. With the exception of our British Championship events all our trials run full no stop & to be honest all the sections I've seen could be no stop in these trials anyway although this year is our first A/B round. What's the betting we can take marks off the A/B's with traditional sections?

Anyway we can't be doing too much wrong as even Dicko is coming round to our views http://www.tmxnews.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx...ticleID=1336132

[jools]

The rules are very confusing. each section you ride, the observing can be very inconsistant. one will let you off for a momentary stop, the other will try to five you for stopping. This is partly due to not breifing observers; all you would have to do instead of saying "can you observe for us!?" and handing them a board, thats not good enough, just even giving them a photocopied page of rules that they can refer to before (and during) the trial.

secondly, every trial you go to, it says "the marking scheme will be to TSR 22A" or TSR 23a, TSR 27A....... you what! cant they simply say 'stop' or 'no-stop'!?! Different trials you go to, the rules are different.

I'd prefer it to go back so you can stop, coz no-one really take ages to go through the section anyway and most trials you go to their will be a few sections that you cannot ride no-stop . confusing.

[perce]

Good turnout for a No Stopping do:- http://www.trialscentral.com/cms/files/YG%...Centre%2006.pdf

[adsy]

Ok, Lets look outside of the UK and we see all the other significant players fall under FIM rules I believe. (correct me if I am wrong). As I see it its a minority in the UK that would like Non-Stop.

I think what perce is meaning is not outside the UK, but abit further

north!

Our Club Y & G ran the Cobb & Jagger trial this weekend, nearly 200

riders, all starting at section 1. Everybody was finished by about

4pm, apparently Otter vale ran a trial yesterday under stop permitted rule

with 160 riders, they did'nt finish until approx 5:15 pm.

So not only do the observers have complicated rules, they are out in the cold longer!

The majority of trials in the Yorkshire centre,the biggest & strongest

centre in the UK for trials without doubt, are run under the No-Stop

rules, we have no shortage of entries, no shortage of Observer's (usually)

no shortage of quality riders and consistently produce some of the best Youth

riders in the country.

Trials up to centre level do not have to be hop & bop, only national & above,

then the youngsters & better adults have somthing to aspire to, & can learn

their trade before attempting to be superstars.

This will encourage Joe Bloggs to have a go & not scare him off.

[atomant]

Well Adsy & Perce, you both make good arguments for No-Stop although the Hop & Bop brigade you refer to only comes from 10% of our entry anyway because thats the percentage of riders capable of doing it. All the rest of us mere mortals are happy to just get around. But still, there are calls for no-stop and there are calls for allowing stopping ! I think we as club organisers should make the choice of whats best for our area and run the trial accordingly. Problem sorted

I agree with Jools too, Organisers should brief the Observers better . We will do that in future for sure

[bikespace]

I can see both sides of the argument, and both methods can be totally ruined by organisers not marking out sections to suit the rules.

The problem I have locally is I'm amrking the trial out and don't know what rules are likely to be observed to.

We can hardly tell observers to turn a blind eye to a bit of stopping, if they want to apply the exact rules.

On the other hand, when we're struggling for observers, we can't really lay the law down and say "The kid stops, he gets a fe%^&ing 5"

Ian's point of view that beginner riders like to be able to scrabble through for a three is valid. The argument that the SSDT does very well as no-stop You don't get many wobblers on the SSDT (Yeah I know - Kinell, there's always an exception ) The Manx 2 day works very well as a non-stop, but same applies.

I'm not even sure that the 200 entries at Richmond are particularly turning up for non-stop rules. I rode up at Penn Hill youth only trial in the 70's with 150 riders, and we could roll backwards then. If you're in Yorkshire, and you put some decent sections on, you'll get big entries if you make them ride one handed.

There are cases for both, what seems to be giving the problems down here, is giving riders a '1' for stopping (or not).

I'm an old fart myself on the expert route. I feel no great disadvantage that I can't hop as good as the young lads, except when a clerk of the course decides he can't get marks off Gary Jenkins without trying to make him ride up his own a***, hopping and bopping everywhere.

Hopping and bopping doesn't replace good down to earth riding if the sections are marked out accordingly.

[jools]

The Manx 2 day works very well as a non-stop

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah but, they are good flowing sections, you have no need to stop. and if you stop there its a five