gizza5 Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 The next Dougie Lampkin is not going to come from riding club/centre trials, fact, it will come from hard practicing and more practicing. Yes he might support his local club from time to time, but that will not get him to the top. The top trials riders in this country can do the hopping and skipping, that goes down to youth level, they are good at it and deserve respect. Yes the sections have got a lot to do with it, but cater for the majority and not the minority, only a hanfull of riders at a trial can do the hop round a tree and turn up your own backside, but the sections are set out for them. There are more and more people riding clubman class, and there are some bl**dy good riders in there, but have no ambition to move up. Look at the entry only a small amount of people ride the hard course nowadays. It was a bold step from many clubs to go back to no stop, but it has worked, the lists have been mentioned. The same people will win the trial, but more people will enjoy it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperado Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Good turnout for a No Stopping do:- http://www.trialscentral.com/cms/files/YG%...Centre%2006.pdf <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What a terrific ebtry. But are you going to tell me the likes of young Wiggy rode all day without a front wheel hop turn or a quick back hop to get in line ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Good turnout for a No Stopping do:- http://www.trialscentral.com/cms/files/YG%...Centre%2006.pdf <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What a terrific ebtry. But are you going to tell me the likes of young Wiggy rode all day without a front wheel hop turn or a quick back hop to get in line ! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There's more skill doing it while on the move than there is doing it by stopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 There's more skill doing it while on the move than there is doing it by stopping. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would agree but you didnt answer Desperdo's question. For Non-Stop to be Non-Stop, Endo's would not be allowed and all the best riders do them. In my book an endo is a stop as you have to have the front brake full on to do it. Are you saying that no one at all done an endo ? And if you want to take it further, you actually go backwards during an endo as when the bike lifts it rocks forward on the radius of the front wheel, then as the bike drops it rocks back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Just watch a video of the SSDT with the likes of Colley gently hopping it around to stay on line whilst still on the move, you'll see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 I'm an old fart myself on the expert route. I feel no great disadvantage that I can't hop as good as the young lads, except when a clerk of the course decides he can't get marks off Gary Jenkins without trying to make him ride up his own a***, hopping and bopping everywhere.Hopping and bopping doesn't replace good down to earth riding if the sections are marked out accordingly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> One of the biggest problems in Trials regardless of rules is C of C's marking out to take marks off one man. Dissappear up yer a*** / hinged bike sections just show up C o C's ineptness better than most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Make it non-stop, the best riders will ride around and bounce sideways on the move, which is fine, the rest of us will have a dab to get round. Hey presto! to best rider wins... yippeee a competition! We can't all be winners, dispite what society requires these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 I'm not even sure that the 200 entries at Richmond are particularly turning up for non-stop rules. I rode up at Penn Hill youth only trial in the 70's with 150 riders, and we could roll backwards then. If you're in Yorkshire, and you put some decent sections on, you'll get big entries if you make them ride one handed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OK I'll give you that one, we do put some good Trials on but we do have some of the best land in the country so we'd be pillocks to mess it up. Answer this though, the two clubs that regularly put most bums on seats in the Yorkshire Centre are consistently Yeadon & Guisley + Richmond, why? Is it because they both run No Stop Trials? PS Have you got the results? Was I there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 I can't really remember when I last went to a trial where riders were not penalised for stopping. Fair enough slight hesitation isn't penalised consistantly but never are you allowed to stand still for more than say a second. I must lead a sheltered life in the trials world if as some say on here a stop feet up is never penalised. This is totally new to me and I do go to a few trials. I think a trip up north would open a few eyes to what is possible with no stop rules. It works. No problem. The best riders still win. I was at the Cobb & Jagger trial on sunday and saw a lot of the top young riders and they were at the top of the results beating a lot of good adults yet it was a non-stop trial. Seems they can do it. I guess a lot of people who are calling for a return to stopping without penalty are pretty new to the sport and didn't experience the 1990s. It was not good. It's not just old folk on the clubman route who want no stop. I would say most of riders in their 20s I know of would rather stay with the rules we have now or go non-stop. I think that trials would be possibly better if a split came about with the new world rules running alongside full no-stop. Let riders ride the trials that suit them. Theres no reason why there couldn't be a British championship for both rules. Mark T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted February 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Not convinced about the split Timp. We've got enough bloody routes/classes I could be convinced I think by the no-stop. I think things have got out of hand round here. I'd just like to go one way or the other, and if the feeling in Yorkshire is no-stop works, then I can't really argue. It's still possible to do a bit of hopping, for instance when going down hill and doing an endo in to place, very rarely is the front brake solid on, you're usually rolling. The sideways hop is an arguable one as well. Fair enough if both wheels hop sideways, but if we're gonna go mathematical if the front wheel stays still and the back wheel moves to the side, there is no way it can't have gone in a forward direction as well, otherwise pythagoras buggered things up and your bike is now a little bit longer Going off track a bit here I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Sorry Bikespace, I didn't make that bit clear. What I meant was two different rules. You either run a trial under no-stop or the new world rules, not both. The riders would then make the decision as to which rule is best. Bet I know which most nationals would run under. Mark T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Sorry Bikespace, I didn't make that bit clear.What I meant was two different rules. You either run a trial under no-stop or the new world rules, not both. The riders would then make the decision as to which rule is best. Bet I know which most nationals would run under. Mark T <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In our club trials a maximum 20% of the riders ride the hard route, by far the biggest entry is on the B route (which we now consider our standard route). The B & C routes can of course be ridden no stop, which is no suprise as pre-65 machines often feature in the top three. Hence, (around here) if the type of rules were voted on, 80% of riders wouldn't mind full non-stop. (I'd take a bet that it would be nearer 90%) there would also be a high number who wouldn't even vote because they don't care. All they want to do is ride their bikes with their pals. So lets make life simpler for everyone and go full non-stop. I don't see why the thousands of club riders around the country should have their rules chopped and changed at the 'drop of a hat' just to suit the small number of riders who ride in FIM events. I realise that even full non-stop rules causes arguments but is it not the easiest rule to explain to a newcomer or a willing Observer at 10am on a Sunday morning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Ok Gaz, lets run a non-stop event in our area and see how it goes down? I certainly would give it a try. We will just need to make sure the sections are marked out to allow for it and it's down to us as CoC's to do the job properly To be honest, the problem is I have been practicing for ages to learn how to stop and balance and I wont need it anymore So, what are the rules you use for non stop? is it like it was in the 80's? Stop with your feet down and its a 5? tell me more. what problems do you have etc etc.? Also, is there any chance that the FIM will go to non-stop in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Atomant, Glad to hear your prepared to give it a go. Laying out is pretty simple. Just give enough room so sections can be ridden without it being necessary to hop. This doesn't mean riders arn't allowed to trick ride, it just they have to do it whilst moving which most expert route riders soon get the hang of and make full use of to there advantage. Observing is always a grey area under any rules, some observers give a five instantly the bike stops moving but most I find do allow a bit of hesitation by the rider but at the extreme some may allow a stop of a second or two. Why not try just running a trial under the stop allowed rule as it is supposed to be run. The rider only gets a 1 for stopping, not a 5. It may not be perfect but it works ok. Another option for you is to travel up to any trial in Derbyshire, Yorkshire or above and see how things run first. You wont regret it. Mark T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Why not try just running a trial under the stop allowed rule as it is supposed to be run. The rider only gets a 1 for stopping, not a 5. It may not be perfect but it works ok. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I had a chat with Elwyn our club Chairman and hes in agreement we run our club championship this year on the no-stop rules. The first being on the 5th March at Nant Mawr Quarry, (Which Andy is coming down to by the way ) .I will let you know how it goes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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