bikespace Posted February 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Brave move, but you get nowhere doing nowt The immediate problem you may have is Old Grit farm (maybe). Some of the sections are made more difficult (for the experts) there by being really tight. Get some more of them big trees in lads Although there's enough to lose marks. No problem at Nant Mawr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperado Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 You are right we do struggle a little at Old Grit catering for the experts but with Martin & Rachael the owners being so bike friendly and the terrain lending itself to all year round trialling we need to persist with it. As you have seen we are importing a few timbers and such but this is very time consuming and will take time. Come Saturday 8th April tho' and you will see quite a difference at the venue. Tell your mates ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 The immediate problem you may have is Old Grit farm (maybe). Some of the sections are made more difficult (for the experts) there by being really tight. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We were up there the weekend and think we can mark out the sections in a way that no hopping will be necessary on any route except when it can be done on the move. Its an interesting challenge as I certainly havent marked out sections in a way that the experts wont need to hop'n'bop before. One can do but try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartc Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Why argue / consider / debate the different rules being used. I would presume the biggest % of you are ACU affiliated riders. The ACU is a UNION, go to you clubs, centres and TELL THEM what rules you want to ride. They must then tell the ACU T&E folk the outcome. Rules can be changed by YOU !!!! BTW: The Yorkshire Centre is NOT totally NON STOP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 we southern fairies are also in confusion mainly dues to a) the observers don't know/don't enforce it consistently - section to section, trial to trial. how the sections are laid out, its the CofC / club who lay the trial out. the fundamental different between TSR 22 A and B is that when you "cease forward motion" on either A or B you get penalised. its just under "Stop with penalties" that you can continue. the confusion comes from the intrinsic difficulties with trials observation (under TSR 22 A or . we personally in the SEC ACU will go ape**** if we can't run both, any decision by the T&EC has got to be acceptable to almost all trials clubs in all 20+ centres (which all run trials). while a change in one way or the other may be desired and even desirable, BUT you need to carry everyone or it will be a repeat of the helmets fiasco with clubs doing a UDI and going AMCA or ORPA - which in the bigger picture is an even worse case scenario rabie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 After discussion with a few people we have decided not to run our trials as pure non-stop or even to the 1 mark for stopping whilst balancing. Many reasons for this but the concensus of opinion is its too far removed from what the rest of the clubs do in our area and the terrain we have at some venues makes it difficult to lay out sections that can test an expert and keep them moving. So, not going to find out now .. I will travel up t'north and try some up there to see what they are like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 After discussion with a few people we have decided not to run our trials as pure non-stop or even to the 1 mark for stopping whilst balancing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So what rules are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted February 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 What you doing now then? You can stop without penalty? Had wondered if there were going to be some "internal discussions" following Elwyn's comment on Shirty's front page bit as it contradicted the clubs new stance. Are you intending to just leave it as it is, where observers get the option to mark it how they please (and very rarely penalise for stopping), or specify that riders can definitely stop without penalty. If they can stop, then presumably they can hop sideways? And just in case you think I'm having a go, I'm just back from a few pints with Doughbouy, and in a teasing mood I'm sort of thinking i don't need to put in that disclaimer, but I've ruined it now anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 What you doing now then? You can stop without penalty?or specify that riders can definitely stop without penalty. If they can stop, then presumably they can hop sideways? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think we can do that, if the event is being run with an ACU permit, as to allow sideways bouncing with no penalty contravenes the Sporting Code which is not allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) What you doing now then? You can stop without penalty?or specify that riders can definitely stop without penalty. If they can stop, then presumably they can hop sideways? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think we can do that, if the event is being run with an ACU permit, as to allow sideways bouncing with no penalty contravenes the Sporting Code which is not allowed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Stopping without penalty is allowed in Team Trials in the midlands centre! TSR22A - Stopping Allowed. (In the pink fixture list book under group trials) . I understand this as 1 mark for stopping is not applicable? Hopping sideways isnt allowed without forward motion and results in a Failure TSR22(d) although I dont want to penalise it at all. If it has to be penalised then a 5 is too harsh I believe.Maybe a 1 for each occurrence up to 3 maybe? (After reading the sporting code I didnt see how changing this contravenes anything ) The only time I think you should get 5's outside the obvious dismount is if you go backwards whilst having your feet/foot down. Edited February 14, 2006 by AtomAnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsy Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Hopping sideways isnt allowed without forward motion and results in a Failure TSR22(d) although I dont want to penalise it at all. If it has to be penalised then a 5 is too harsh I believe.Maybe a 1 for each occurrence up to 3 maybe? I think your observers are going to need a degree in Astral Physics to observe at one of your're trials!!! As for TSR22A, yes stopping is permitted, but not without penalty. Good luck, but rather you than me. keep it simple, then its easy & fun for everyone, riders & observers alike. Whatever rules you go for, the best riders will always win, so why complicate things for the majority of the entry? Lets keep the complicated rules for Bit Champs & above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperado Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 (edited) Adsy -'As for TSR22A, yes stopping is permitted, but not without penalty.' Picking up on Atom it actually states in Midland Centre Pink fixture book with reference to the 2006 Group trial series regulations paragraph one - 'Marking will be to TSR22A i.e Stopping allowed '. We will have a final statement before 5th March when all riders and observers will be made aware of the exact marking procedure on that day. Edited February 14, 2006 by Desperado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Hopping sideways isnt allowed without forward motion and results in a Failure TSR22(d) although I dont want to penalise it at all. If it has to be penalised then a 5 is too harsh I believe.Maybe a 1 for each occurrence up to 3 maybe?I think your observers are going to need a degree in Astral Physics to observe at one of your're trials!!! You have misunderstood me. I dont want it to be complicated to observe at club level. Quite the opposite in fact.As for TSR22A, yes stopping is permitted, but not without penalty. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thats a contradiction of terms! How can you be allowed to stop but then be penalised for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsy Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 As for TSR22A, yes stopping is permitted, but not without penalty. Thats a contradiction of terms! How can you be allowed to stop but then be penalised for it? In the ACU handbook their are two sets of rules,, as you probably already know. TSR22 and TSR22A. TSR22 is the full no stop rules i.e. no stopping permitted, if you stop forward motion it is a failure/5. TSR22A is as you know stop permitted / allowed, but for a 1 mark penalty. So when I say penalised, I do not mean a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 In the ACU handbook their are two sets of rules,, as you probably already know.TSR22 and TSR22A. TSR22 is the full no stop rules i.e. no stopping permitted, if you stop forward motion it is a failure/5. TSR22A is as you know stop permitted / allowed, but for a 1 mark penalty. So when I say penalised, I do not mean a failure. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for that We will be operating our trials this year under the TSR22A rule in line with ACU rules with no changes.We feel Its important for the riders that we have in our club who do national competitions (like Ross Danby for instance) that we operate rules that are the same as what they will find elsewhere to keep continuity. However, in line with the origination of this post, I think its worth keeping the discussions going on what riders actually want from a trial in the way of being marked? And also ( and probably more important ) what is easy and simple for the observers too. We can debate forever this idea and that idea but if we have something that is easy to operate and the riders like it, then the success of trials is assured ! Simple as simple gets dont you think? All in my opinion of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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