Pre 65 Future & Pre 65 Rules

[ttspud]

@Woody. Yes, I appreciate all of that, very true.  Most of that point of view comes from talking to riders from southern events, not the NBBC ones since I have not ridden those.  The question really is "What harm would there be in including a sub-class?".   If the only objection to that would be "how would it be implemented?", then let's talk about that.  I do not know if it would help bring original bikes back or keep those that the sport has involved, but it might and it is worth a try, to my mind anyway.  It may be that only a handful of trials can provide a scrutineer for checking just 'original' bikes, certainly the main trials can do that.  Smaller ones, then don't do that at all if that is the only way, it would not be harming them and other solutions may be found.  If it is only a localish trial, then, as self-marking, let riders certify their bikes if that is the only way.  There could be other ideas that do not involve organisers at all, such as the more formal registration, something similar to the debate in the first post.  Anyway, as I say, I do not mind for myself, I am getting older as we all are, there are only a tiny handful of events that are set up for these bikes near me with any kind of appropriate routes.  Other trials, I will use a modern bike instead.  I will hand down my bike to younger members of my family who will ride or not, just as my bike has been handed down multiple times already.  I would like to see these bikes still ridden, and if a sub-class can be worked out to keep people enjoying them, then great.  I think you realise now that it would not be excluding anyone.

[millwright]

I'm 72 started trialling 4 years ago one of the attractions of Pre 65 was i could build the bike myself plus doing 90% of the work my self kept the cost down my main expense was a rigid  Drayton frame. 3peed Bantam engine suitable moded by myself in a 8x12 shed equipped with a Chinese lathe pillar drill and welding bottles building and developing this machine has kept me sane during covid i usually ride at least once a week i have a lot of fun and am not going to bother the winners but now I'm labelled a cheat riding a cheat machine maybe I'm a cheat rider as well since tearing knee ligaments and being told I'm to old for knee surgery i wear a carbon fibre and titanium knee brace definitely not Pre 65 . The system we have works well there's some fabulous machines out there to ride original Pre 65 bike only would make it a elitist sport with very few events and bikes costing a fortune just enjoy what you've got just get out and ride your bike and if you really want to enjoy it do what i did and move North.    

 

[woody]

I don't know what you want or why Spud.  You only use your bike a couple of times a year at trials local to you, so unless you travel around the country either riding or spectating at numerous Pre65 events, when are you going to see the standard bikes that you want to see back in circulation?  If you want change you're going to have to convince the clubs that run these events in your area by getting the support of other riders who feel the same way - have them lobby the clubs with you, find someone who knows the old bikes in detail and see if they will scrutineer at each event. I imagine you won't...

The decline of these bikes is due to the riders that used to ride them getting ever older and no longer able to handle them, not rules. Our local British bike club had several riders 10 years ago on big bikes as they enjoyed riding them. They are all riding lightweight Bantams now, nothing to do with rules, cheat bikes or anything else, purely because they can no longer manage the big bikes. Excepting your area, there are still trials that accomodate these bikes and the riders who enjoy using them do just that - they don't care what anyone else is riding, they are getting their day's enjoyment riding their own bikes. 

As I said before, you're trying to fix something that isn't broken

[ttspud]

@Woody.  Yes, that may be true.  Yes, it may well be that this kind of thing is introduced in my area, it has been discussed for a while now between riders and organisers.  The difficulty is doing it in such a way that it includes original bikes without upsetting the modified bike riders.  The example that you mention above about enforcing original components on all bikes (such as hubs) will obviously exclude bikes totally; the reason for a sub-class is that it absolutely, categorically excludes no-one.  The reason really for discussing again is that the best way forward, eventually, would be, if it does show that it does help maintain an 'original' entry or even increase it, for there to be a sport-wide approach which would allow riders on any original or modified bike to know where they stand.  Right now, it is a very hit and miss affair.  And yes, it may be too late, and may be pointless, it may also be a different scenario north to south.  On the plus side, I enjoyed that discussion a lot, it had none of the nastiness of the previous debates, so, great.  With covid issues, I am not sure which events are actually going ahead around me since the risks (outlays) are too high to risk an event cancellation, there have been no proper events for a while.  Anyway, good luck with the NBBC, it looks great.

[rr62]

Wow - so much anger here! I thought Trials was far more chilled out. Debate is great but anger less so. Peace out everyone. Enjoy your bikes and riding - life is far too short.

[trialman]

Well I think I will just go by the wording..PRE-65..yep that says it all!! if you're frame isn't pre 65 then you can't argue. You are now a late twinshock.. no extra classes. Let's start it all off at the scottish entry asap, all bikes are checked just by the frame originality and if they don't pass load up and go home. I would like sammy miller to put in the final nail to this coffin and end any further crap, I think the twinshock guy's would shake in their boots to have the super modded bikes in that class as they are finer tuned than any original twinshock, we all know a lot off the top center guy's are riding these thing's as they definitely don't want to ride the current nationals as they have more in common with sheffield for the stunt riders.Anyway lets all scoot of to our fun trials take away any awards so you only do it for the exercise and the joy of a good natter and look forward to collapsing at home in the recliner chair and thinking..THAT WAS FUN..AND OH ***** I'VE GOT TO WASH THE BIKE OFF.. whats really funny is that I've been riding for 48 years and still enjoy it. And still build my own bikes to play on, because me bodies that worn out i'm no longer competitive. SPORT FOR ALL AND ALL FOR THE SPORT I SAY. And thanks for all the great people that tirelessly put on our great trials whether club or national for our enjoyment.

 

[greevesrob]

Interesting comments but your not going to stop it now. At the end of the day you can build a bike that's worth thousands with every trick part available but if u can't ride it you will still not win.

[japes1275]

Don’t fix what isn’t broken - the problem is that it was broken years ago and there probably isn’t any way back.

The only way back would be for all the clubs in the UK to sign up to the same organising body and for that body to come up with some proper rules. Even with the mix of original or fully tricked up bikes we have now there could be some scope for classes for everyone. The problem would be getting everyone to sign up to it, getting everyone to agree on the rules and of course getting people to pay the extra entry fees required - the blazers, tie and badges for scrutineers and officials aren’t cheap!

When I started observing then riding pre 65 was kind of in its infancy. My bike was a genuine early 1960’s trials bike but was only just over 20 years old. It’s now 35 years on from then and I suppose it’s no wonder that an unregulated sport has (unfortunately) moved on to be somewhat different.

But having said that I went and watched a pre 65 trial a few weeks ago, there were original and trick bikes, male and female riders, an age range from early 20’s to early 80’s and everyone seemed to be enjoying themselves immensely. So maybe it’s not that broken after all.

[ttspud]

Hi TrialsRFun,  

First, thank you for the kind message, the information and the invite.  I fear the trials might be bit far away since I have to drive a fair way to collect my bike in the first place but yes, please do send me a private message and let me have some details.  The Pre-57 events look brilliant too with proper bikes and some Pre-65s also.  Awesome.

TTSpud 

[ttspud]

Hi Japes,

Yes that is possible.  Rules would certainly be a good start, they do not need to cost anything nor come from one of the insurance bodies, here is the sub-class version, for discussion, freshly written today... now moved to the top of the Topic.

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by ttspud

[greevesrob]

So that would mean no one would be eligible for the original class then. Also what's the fascination with tube tyres there's only one maker of tubed trials tyres left

[ttspud]

@Greevesrob.  You can put a tube in a tubeless tyre if need be which is easy to do, they often are thicker and heavier, but no problem.  Yes, there is a clear distinction between modified and original bikes, two different approaches completely.

[b40rt]

7 sub categories for 4 strokes, 1 for 2 strokes ........

[ttspud]

@b40rt.  Routes and classes are "at the club's discretion".  If you want me to add some more 2 stroke classes to the 'example' classes, which 2 stroke ones would you like added?  I added some for you.

Edited September 12, 2021 by ttspud

[b40rt]

4 minutes ago, ttspud said:

@b40rt.  Routes and classes are "at the club's discretion".  If you want me to add some more 2 stroke classes to the 'example' classes, which 2 stroke ones would you like added?  

Why wouldn't you have similar ones ? Sprung 2t. Rigid 2t. Up to 200cc. Over 200cc. Gentleman 2t.