Matchless Pre-65

[matchymarty]

Hi all,

I have a '55 US model G80CS pretty original condition that I ride regularily in Historic bike club rallies and rides. I have been doing modern trials for a year now, and feel like my skills are at the point where I can trust myself on an 'old bike' without the fear of trashing it too much.

So, I am starting the thought process of deciding on what bike to buy, build or find!

A friend of mine has an original G3LC trials, believed to be '56, which has the same full width hubs as my G80CS, seemingly correct rear subframe, and gerling shocks. That said, he'd never let me ride it in a trial, however, I've ridden it more than he has!  At least I have good reference bike.

Finding an original Matchless trials bike here in OZ, would be all but impossible - and as such, I may be forced to convert a road bike or, build one from scratch.

My question really is, is there any documentation or , can anyone point me in the direction of information on the differences between factory rigid and sprung frame geometry?

A modern trials bike has a wheelbase of around 1320mm (52") and a head angle around 26 deg, though unspecified by manufacturers.

Wondering if I'd be better served weight, wheelbase, and steering wise (and money wise!) with a rigid matchless frame? I know the front end on my G80CS is very 'slack' and it is hard to steer on the road, suspect it would be hard to steer off road in a trials environment?  

IS there any comparisons between wheelbase and head angle on the early rigid vs later 50's sprung frames?  A wild guess here, but I suspect the head angle is probably not a lot different between the sprun and rigid frames, and , likewise, between road and scrambles frames.  Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Pic for attention.

[collyolly]

Beautiful looking bike.

Asking on here about classic trials bikes is going to be opening a can of worms. Lots will say make it ride like a modern bike and a few will go for originality, you have to ask yourself  ‘Where am I going to ride it ?’
Not sure about the Trials scene in NZ but in the U.K. you would be hard pushed to ride that ‘Original’ bike many times a year unless you were up for a serious struggle and we have a vast amount of events throughout the year.

Good luck

 

[carl ekblom]

You may have a look in Don Morley´s book "Classic British Trials Bikes" (found mine at ebay)

Be aware that an original bike perhaps not will be competitive nowadays. Some people start with an engine then build a complete trials bike of suitable parts which I think is the correct way to do it.

Don´t take a nice original bike apart. Leave it as it is.

Accordingly to me the cheapest and easiest way to classic trials is to start with a classic twinshock from the 70´s. A good classic pre 65 will easily be 2-3 times as much.

[carl ekblom]

This link was remowed from my previous posting  https://trialsguru.net/ajs-matchless-trials-singles/

No censorship today

[matchymarty]

On 10/21/2021 at 1:58 AM, collyolly said:

Thanks guys.

I guess you are right.  At my local trials events, I've seen guys ride 'classic' Bultaco's and Yamaha's etc, in white and blue lines.  It certainly looks much harder on the rider and the machinery (particularily the Blue lines) than it is on modern bikes.

I see how the riders in UK etc build pre-65 bikes with custom frames etc, and, for ME, I sort of don't get that, and isn't what I would want.  I'm no purist, but an old bike is an old bike to me.  

Here in Australia, pre-65 is a once or twice a year event.  There isn't much of a following, and you are right, I guess I should attend an event and see the lines they ride, and make my decision from there.

I'll have a look into the Don Moorely book, so thanks for the tip.

I used to have a '77 yamaha TY250, so am familiar with the twinshocks.... but had to sell that on to fund my new 'modern' trials bike which I love.
Perhaps another Ty250 would serve me well, however I just love my Matchless's, so was looking into it as an alternative.

Cheers for your thoughts.

 

 

[jon v8]

18 hours ago, matchymarty said:

 

I don't think you should give up, people here complain about there being no trials where original pre unit bikes can be ridden. That may be true in some areas of the UK, but here in the West Country we are luckily spoilt for choice, my rigid J9 James is my choice this weekend, rigid AJS for the Golden Valley road trial next weekend. 

I remember reading about some issues in Oz with eligibility for Pre65 bikes, maybe they could be relaxed if its still a problem. Again people complain here, but the truth is many old bikes,original or not are still being ridden regularly - That is what matters.

[MartinbuiltAJS]

I'm with you. I've been working on a '51 18S for about 6 months. It was a basket case, and i had intended to build a pre-unit trials bike out of it. That probably won't happen, now that i've found all the right tinwork...

There's no way i could care less about being competitive. I'm going to try to build a rigid 350 from parts once this bike is finished. People will worship me when i show up at the vintage events.

I do have a tl, so i'm not opposed to the twinshock thing. I just like the idea of struggling with a big, heavy machine.