atomant Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) When at Hawkstone, each section had an official doing the time and I bet there were occasions when the rider was just on the limit of the time and gave the rider a few more seconds to avoid conflict with the rider or just give benefit of the doubt. Well, to avoid that, why not have an automatic clock that has an audible sound exactly on the time limit avoiding conflict and being consistent for everyone. The observer just checks to see the rider has cleared the gates before it goes off and the rider cant argue as when the sound goes.. thats it! Edited to read better I hope Edited February 17, 2006 by AtomAnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 We had this conversation a while ago, but I can't find the thread. They were trying this device out at the Belgian World Round last year. The cost of this, or any other electronic device, would probably be prohibitive for most Clubs though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Ahh Andy, I knew I had seen it somewhere ( when swimming to the corner of the tank ) But couldnt the FIM afford them? I also would think they wouldn't cost much as the components in there cost next to nothing except the LED dispay. Could make them for under Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdc Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 They also used a similar device at the Swiss round in 2004 but I can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john collins Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 We will be providing a small timing device for each Observer at next years Brit Champ round. We have bought a few different ones to experiment with and they are all OK . Except for one problem - which perhaops someone out there can help with. The devices we have tried are " Memory recall" You set them to given time - which for Brit Champ will be 1min 30 sec They are quite easy to set - even I as a technological novice can do it. There is then 1 quite large button which Observer presses - as they blow whistle - and rider starts section. Observer then does nothing - after set time - quite audable buzzer sounds - Observer blows whistle. If rider still in section 5 etc. Observer does not have to re-set time - only press large button again - and off it goes to same interval. These will be provided at each round. One small problem - which we would like to overcome if we can do it simply. After the Observer has pressed button - say rider fails/falls off/does section in 40sec etc - when you press the big button - clock will stop - but will not revert back to zero. You have to leave it run its course first - or obviously reset it Becasuse it is so easy to reset - it is not a big problem, but perhaps there is a similar simple device that will go back to zero more easily? As a point of interest - easy to buy whistles - issue to Observer and collect back in at end same as punch and clock - but obviously a non starter hygene wise. So - each Observer will be issued with a whistle which they will then keep Who says you get nowt for your money? Observers form an ordely line to collect your Official whistle ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysb Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 im sure the timmer i passed on to Dave at the colonial does what your asking i think you would press once to stop the clock and again to reset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 We will be providing a small timing device for each Observer at next years Brit Champ round. We have bought a few different ones to experiment with and they are all OK . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdmc Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 When at Hawkstone, each section had an official doing the time and I bet there were occasions when the rider was just on the limit of the time and gave the rider a few more seconds to avoid a row with the rider or whatever. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why come out with a satement like that. The observing teams at Hawkstone were 100% professional as it will be next time. There are other posts on these forums about not getting people to observe. With statements like the one above where you, in a round about way, do not trust them. I can now see why it is becoming harder to obtain observers How much money are you prepared to bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 The observing teams at hawkstone were definately not 100% profesional 100% of the time, if we remember the thread from before for example, comments made by a bdmc official about laia Sanz if I remember correctly? That, unless I am grossly mistaken is not the issue here, so do not immediately jump to defend the integrity of observers when no attack is meant. Atom ant is I guess, suggesting a foolproof system which will help the observers at any WTC round whats wrong with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john collins Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Thanks YSB - but the timer DW had from you is one of the ones we have been trying. It is better than the one I bought size and audable wise - with good buttons etc - but if stopped before the set time - like others does not revert back to zero ready for next rider. You have to re-set the time into it - or let its run its course until it buzzes and then start it again. I will email as adviced the other post and see if we can sort this out as suggested. It is not that big a problem - but would be nice to make as simple as possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 When at Hawkstone, each section had an official doing the time and I bet there were occasions when the rider was just on the limit of the time and gave the rider a few more seconds to avoid a row with the rider or whatever. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why come out with a satement like that. The observing teams at Hawkstone were 100% professional as it will be next time. There are other posts on these forums about not getting people to observe. With statements like the one above where you, in a round about way, do not trust them. I can now see why it is becoming harder to obtain observers How much money are you prepared to bet. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In no way was I attacking the integrity of the observers on that day. I know some of them very well I probably didnt put it over that well so you misunderstood my intentions I suspect which was simply to find a way to make observing easier. ( I have been known to observe myself by the way ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian r Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Just to add the obvious, If your the only one checking it sure would be nice to be watching the rider instead of a stopwatch. How nice would it be to have an audible alarm that sounds automatically when the riders tire enters the start gate and then blows at 30 seconds and then at 1 minute 30 seconds all by itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartc Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 John, just let the unit run its course, no need to re-set as you aint getting another rider in the section before 1 min 30 up anyway, especially if they have failed. Re-set after the normal 1'30. Cant see a problem with what you have, and I will be using one Dabster, cant remember any comment about Lia and I'm from BDMC, can you enlighten us? For the 2006 round please do come and help us out, we really need your high level of judgement. (or so it seems from your comments) Maybe dont bother (if you only want to critisise) as we don't want any critisism of folk who give up their time freely to help out, and come from all over the country to do just that at their own expense. How often at world level have you observed? If you have how many times have you made a mistake? (and don't say NONE) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) The toughest thing about the time is giving someone a 5 for being maybe 3 feet from the ends cards. I had a similar situation at Hawkestone which I've mentioned before. As the bloke was a complete tit about it I don't mind mentioning his name. It was Taddy (Tadieuz Blazeuziak - probably way off the spelling but not to worry). I blew the whistle and he quickly revved the bike and tried to shoot across the last 20 feet of section. To him it didn't seem a long time. To the other riders, and to me, it's a 5, and it was a few seconds. I'd already told him 10 seconds, but maybe the language barrier got in the way. It didn't stop him telling me he hoped that my family died a horrible death. Maybe he was short of english expletives Whateffor! The tougher call is when the rider is within a few yards of the flag, and rightly or wrongly, if it's gonna be a blink of the eye job, the whistle gives you the option of taking the doubt away from the other riders minds by waiting a split second to blow it. OUCH - I'm probably going to get some **** for this , but no matter who the rider was, if they were that close to the flag that it was going to be that hard to judge it, I let them through. AND I defend that judgement. They've made a valid effort at getting to the end of a very long section within the time. It's just not trials to hammer them with a five over a quick judgement decision. So...my two comments 1. Leave the timing to the observer with the whistle. 2. Make the sections more "do-able" within the time limit. (ours was very tight no matter who you are - leave that for the indoors) Thoughts anyone? Edited February 17, 2006 by bikespace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 The toughest thing about the time is giving someone a 5 for being maybe 3 feet from the ends cards.........1. Leave the timing to the observer with the whistle. 2. Make the sections more "do-able" within the time limit. (ours was very tight no matter who you are - leave that for the indoors) Thoughts anyone? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My thoughts on this whole post is to make it simple for the observers AND consistent for the riders. The way I see it, when put in the hands of a human, it becomes an emotional decision based on life prejudices and experiences. For example, if after your experience with Taddy, he came around again and on the next lap he put you in a position where he was 10ft from the flags and out of time, would you have blown the whistle or given him the extra 10ft? I'm not expecting you to answer that question but I use the argument to make the point. Making an insult like that to me about my family, I would have blown the whistle without doubt but if the other riders came along and done the same I would have given them the benefit ( thats all of them ). So clearly my decision making would have been affected and inconsistent.So I say, put it in the hands of technology where no human emotions can affect the decision and it will be consistent. It will not be ambiguous and no one can ever argue with it. Secondly, how many fives were given to the riders on your section on time? If 80% of the riders get through ok then the time is about right I would think. If its less than that then I agree. IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.