bikespace Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) As far as the insults went, I just thought You silly little boy. Water off a ducks back - he knew he deserved the 5. (although I've got to admit I did think about getting him by the scruff of the neck and pinning him to a tree as it was personal I'd say about 30% of them had trouble with time. You almost had to ride the section on fast-forward. No it wouldn't make any difference to me next time. I'd be quite happy to blow the whistle at 15 feet for Taddy. If he had another go, then he'd almost definitely be up that tree With regards to the human problem. That's where I think the problem would come by having a beeper. Probably didn't get my point over. Imagine the situation where the beeper goes off as the rider is flashing past the ends cards (or 3 or 6 feet before it, doing 20mph). The rider will obviously think he's out, and as the observer I would tend to think "You just can't 5 a bloke for a photo finish. That's not the idea of the timed sections in outdoor" However, for the other 15 riders who are watching, and would love him to have a 5, then obviously he was a few feet inside the section, and they'll be having a right go. ESPECIALLY if the whistle IS blown for them when they are 10 or 15 feet away from the ends cards. There is no defence against that: You let him off, why not me????? Well he was so close to the ends flags...... How close do you have to be? Well you were a good 15 feet away! So 6 or 10 feet will be OK, but 15 feet is just a bit too much for you English Pig Dog If you make it more automated I think you have to make it totally decisive, like maybe a broken beam at the ends cards, and the device says "Out of time" or displays the time. This will open up a whole new can of worms though I think. Minders/mechanics just slipping past the ends cards to stop the clock a bit early maybe? Or some partizan spectator falling through the beam to make it invalid. Loads of options I suppose. What I'm saying is, giving the riders and spectators too much information, gives them the rope to hang the observer with. My intention is still to make the right decision, not to be able to cheat in any way, but hopefully you know what I mean (even if you don't agree ) Edited February 18, 2006 by bikespace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 You make valid points Gaz but being the technocrat that I am, I believe technology IS the answer. If you take the system they use on go-carts for lap times for instance. The cart is fitted with a unique radio transmitter ( which could be encoded for instance to remove the possibility of cheating) and is detected to 100ths of a second. If the bike doesnt get through on time even be it to 100th of a second, its failed. No ifs or buts and no arguments! To get this level of accuracy is simply not possible for a human to do. At the top level it should be done like this to remove any doubt as to who is the winner or not. All top sports use technology somewhere except trials which currently uses none.... but it will change of this I am sure. IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Now there's an answer! My argument is just that the automatic buzzer may not be the answer, and in some situations may make things worse. I think this transponder thing is something worth looking in to. You need a backup still, just in case the technology goes tits up, or more likely our old observer, Harold Arbuckle who isn't too savvy with electricity yet, never mind technology buggers it up , but sounds like something worth working on to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 I tell you what, there's more mileage in that Go-kart style transponder thing of yours I reckon. The system would be able to recognise who the rider is, and be able to display his name on an LED panel for instance. If there is an option for pressing a button to register his score, similar to the handheld device above, it could even communicate with the Paddock, and the scores be collated and displayed on screens at the finish area. How about Plasma screens as the riders come through detailing what they've lost on every other section. Event previews running on the plasmas while we're waiting for the riders to come round. Advertising running on them to help pay for it OK - maybe forget the plasmas until they come down in price a bit - also a problem maybe to get mains power, but in ten years time all this and more will be here (if we're still here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 I tell you what, there's more mileage in that Go-kart style transponder thing of yours I reckon.The system would be able to recognise who the rider is, and be able to display his name on an LED panel for instance. If there is an option for pressing a button to register his score, similar to the handheld device above, it could even communicate with the Paddock, and the scores be collated and displayed on screens at the finish area. How about Plasma screens as the riders come through detailing what they've lost on every other section. Event previews running on the plasmas while we're waiting for the riders to come round. Advertising running on them to help pay for it OK - maybe forget the plasmas until they come down in price a bit - also a problem maybe to get mains power, but in ten years time all this and more will be here (if we're still here) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now your thinking matey Real time updates of whats happening on the course beamed to onsite screens. text's to your phone, teletext to your tv.. Man, the things you can do is endless and its all being done right now in other sports.. so it wouldnt be hard to implement!! Rock 'n' Roll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Gaz, I think were alone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Don't be getting all romantic with me I don't go for older men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Now your thinking matey Real time updates of whats happening on the course beamed to onsite screens. text's to your phone, teletext to your tv.. Man, the things you can do is endless and its all being done right now in other sports.. so it wouldnt be hard to implement!! Rock 'n' Roll <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And, at a push, a portaloo that isn't flowing over by the Saturday afternoon OK, I've taken it too far, just a dream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boofont Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Gaz, I think were alone <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're not alone! The transponder idea is fantastic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 the "go kart system" - ie transponders is what we use in MX, hare and hounds and grass track (enduro is much more complex) - I've worked one several times you put a co-ax loop in the ground at the start and a separate on at the end - to get 1/100th of a second you would need a laser light beam (doable but yet more expense). a transponder cost around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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