Online Coaching group - Neilprice.com

[bikerpet]

Just sharing something that has helped me incredibly much over roughly the past year. I'm just a happy user.

Neil Price is an Australian Expert level rider, 18 times West Aust. champion, 2x Aust Champ, has competed in Europe and World rounds and all round nice fella. He has been coaching trials for decades and is a real thinker - always considering the detail that makes things work.

A year or so ago Neil started a Facebook online coaching group which proved the concept had wings. Six months ago (+/-) he launched a dedicated online platform - quite similar to most social media platforms - Feed, Chat, Likes, Comments, Notifications, Hashtags etc. but also "groups" & sections for various "libraries" of information. This is a paid subscription service.

Within the platform Neil posts all sorts of info - demo videos, monthly challenges, training plans etc. Members can also post video and ask for feedback and pointers, which Neil responds to individually. All in all a pretty good platform.

Neil has a somewhat different take on how to build and use techniques than anyone else I've seen online - it's so refreshing! Simple, easy to understand and builds really solid foundations for every type of manoeuvre.

Some of the building blocks he uses are:

• Static balance
• figure 8's building turning skills, clutch & throttle
• RSG - this is such a good tool. Rev, Squat, Go. He uses this from very early on to build fundamental throttle, clutch and timing, and builds on it as rider skill increases. It is the basic building block for the next 3.
• Ride technique -  literally riding the back wheel up an obstacle. Doesn't matter if the front wheel hits, touches or clears the obstacle, if the back wheel drives up the face it's "Ride".
• Punch - pretty much what commonly gets called Zap or Jap Zap
• Splat - probably needs no explanation here.

That's it, simple. Notable is the absence of double blip. For a whole bunch of reasons he just doesn't teach it or talk about it.

I can't say enough good things about Neil's coaching! As someone turning 60 this year, and who really only started riding dirt bikes a few years ago (I rode a bit 45 years ago, but then a looong break) I am staggered how far my riding has come in the past year with Neil. Progress that unquestionably would have been impossible without consistent professional coaching. Where I live that just isn't going to happen if it's not online!

If you want to see Neil in (coaching) action go to YouTube Trials and Enduro Skills where Neil does a weekly live show.

https://www.neilprice.com/signup/xqistX

Edited January 22, 2022 by bikerpet

[fprintf]

The online videos tend to be a bit of a slog. It is partly like going to a party, listening in on a few conversations but not really knowing who/what they are talking about (sometimes people going to their school) but then hearing a juicy bit of info between the gossip. Pearls of wisdom buried in lots of sand, but that is what it is.

I really like the concept of RSG, want to give it a go when the weather warms up a bit from the below zero temperatures (*C). I have access to a ton of local coaching as well as friends who are pretty good coaches too, so I don't think I'm going to spring for the paid online training, at least not yet. US$160 per year isn't a bad deal if you don't have access to a coach and you don't mind filming yourself and then getting and synthesizing the feedback a little bit later. In fact filming yourself and then getting to watch it and paired with the feedback might be something valuable over in-person coaching just in itself (where I tend to get overwhelmed, latch onto one specific thing and the rest is forgotten). 

[lineaway]

 Neil sounds like he made a nice niche in the crazy new world. A lot of the coaching seems to be skipping the finer parts of trials training. The newer bikes are just so much easier to ride. You do not need as much timing if you are not afraid of going into a higher gear and attacking hard and true. But skipping the double blip is as bad as a new rider leaning to hop well but never learning to turn! Which many have done, to regret it later. I wish Mr. Price well, as that is quite an interesting approach to trials training.

 

[bikerpet]

50 minutes ago, lineaway said:

 Neil sounds like he made a nice niche in the crazy new world. A lot of the coaching seems to be skipping the finer parts of trials training. The newer bikes are just so much easier to ride. You do not need as much timing if you are not afraid of going into a higher gear and attacking hard and true. But skipping the double blip is as bad as a new rider leaning to hop well but never learning to turn! Which many have done, to regret it later. I wish Mr. Price well, as that is quite an interesting approach to trials training.

 

I don't think you've really seen his coaching if you say he skips a lot of the finer parts. I don't have much experience with face-to-face coaching because there just isn't any available anywhere near me, but comparing to the little I have had and the many hours of online stuff I've looked at he goes into far more detail without adding unnecessary clutter. The idea of "going into a higher gear and attacking hard and true" is absolutely the opposite of what Neil tries to develop. Yes, sometimes you need some speed and power, no question, but it's always better to use the minimum that gets the job done effectively.

Why do you say skipping the double blip is bad?

A reasonably modern bike can just ride (by driving the back wheel into it, with good technique) over anything you'd use a double blip over, with less complication and probably carrying less speed if you've already learned how to use a few revs and the clutch. Effectively a double blip in the end is just driving the rear wheel into the obstacle, there's no real lift generated. So why add in the first blip? Of course some of this comes back to that old nut, the definition of a double blip - does it use the clutch or not, or doesn't it matter?

I seem to recall you saying something along the lines of the double blip being a hold over from the days of twinshocks and with no need on modern bikes?

As for learning to hop before learning to turn, Neil certainly shares your view. But I'm still trying to learn to hop, probably to his frustration :-). Not because I think I need it, but purely because it seems a fun thing to be able to do - I ride for fun and get to an occasional event along the way.

[bikerpet]

9 hours ago, fprintf said:

The online videos tend to be a bit of a slog. It is partly like going to a party, listening in on a few conversations but not really knowing who/what they are talking about (sometimes people going to their school) but then hearing a juicy bit of info between the gossip. Pearls of wisdom buried in lots of sand, but that is what it is.

I really like the concept of RSG, want to give it a go when the weather warms up a bit from the below zero temperatures (*C). I have access to a ton of local coaching as well as friends who are pretty good coaches too, so I don't think I'm going to spring for the paid online training, at least not yet. US$160 per year isn't a bad deal if you don't have access to a coach and you don't mind filming yourself and then getting and synthesizing the feedback a little bit later. In fact filming yourself and then getting to watch it and paired with the feedback might be something valuable over in-person coaching just in itself (where I tend to get overwhelmed, latch onto one specific thing and the rest is forgotten). 

Yes, I tend to agree a little about the weekly videos, a fair bit of friendly conversation in there. I think (guessing) they are primarily aimed at people who use Neil's face-to-face or online coaching, certainly they come across best when you've watched a series of them and you start to see the common threads.

RSG is just a gem I reckon - it's amazing how hard it is to be absolutely accurate with it, but as it gets better so much else comes along with it.

As you say, filming yourself and editing it down for delivery is of itself really valuable I've found. Sometimes I end up not even posting it for Neil to comment on because by the time I've watched it a few times and scrolled back and forth I can see what I need to do anyway! But when I do post something then inevitably the response is clear, simple and usually comes back to building basic skills.

The other big advantage of the online thing you've also alluded to - it's delivered consistently over an extended time, and you can always go back and look at previous comments and guidance. Being able to do that helps avoid the issue of latching onto just one thing and forgetting the rest.

[lineaway]

 The double blip is the most basic move to get over a log or ledge. It`s one of the first things learned that involves real timing. I have always said a roll up will get you up almost 90% of all ups. Using RSG on a roll up can get you up 98 % of anything. You do not have to look good riding trials as long as your are feet up you are golden. That is now the basic taught technique, doing a real zap takes very good timing and hours of training.  A splat is easy if you have a kicker, but is very hard off flat ground.

[bikerpet]

47 minutes ago, lineaway said:

 The double blip is the most basic move to get over a log or ledge. It`s one of the first things learned that involves real timing. I have always said a roll up will get you up almost 90% of all ups. Using RSG on a roll up can get you up 98 % of anything. You do not have to look good riding trials as long as your are feet up you are golden. That is now the basic taught technique, doing a real zap takes very good timing and hours of training.  A splat is easy if you have a kicker, but is very hard off flat ground.

I don't quite follow that.
If the roll-up covers 90%, and the RSG roll-up covers 98% of obstacles, why would you learn a double blip as the basic move to get over something? Why not just learn roll-ups and then get good at them?

A roll-up also includes touching the front wheel on the way up or clearing the front wheel, so you can always start to learn wheel placement accuracy and timing via the roll-up, preferably with RSG so the lift is done with clutch more than throttle.

Personally my experience is that my zaps improved out of sight once I got the double blip out of the picture and concentrated on getting RSG throttle/clutch/timing sorted out better. I think dbl blip actually confused the issue by encouraging the front wheel to land too high for a good zap and relying too much on throttle, not developing clutch/throttle timing enough.

[nhuskys]

I guess I'll join the chase down the Rabbit hole.....  I've done a few Ryan Young schools and he down plays the zap these days. He says the zap will eventually limit you, as it's only effective to a certain height obstacle. He stresses the double blip to the extreme, in what he calls the bucking bronco. This is hitting the rear wheel really hard and making the rear pop up.

[bikerpet]

1 hour ago, nhuskys said:

I guess I'll join the chase down the Rabbit hole.....  I've done a few Ryan Young schools and he down plays the zap these days. He says the zap will eventually limit you, as it's only effective to a certain height obstacle. He stresses the double blip to the extreme, in what he calls the bucking bronco. This is hitting the rear wheel really hard and making the rear pop up.

As Lineaway also said, the roll-up in it's various forms covers 90%+ of what most people ride. Certainly this is what Neil reinforces in the online coaching.

There's a recent short Pat Smage video, "Just Hit it With the Front Wheel, It'll Go" - if that's somewhere close to the limits of the zap then I can't see myself ever being limited! That's a bigger obstacle than I'm likely to tackle any time soon.

I've seen what I think you're referring to as Ryan's "bucking bronco" technique. I'd have to say it seems a bit left field to me, I don't see too many people actually using it at any level of competition. I've assumed it was a bit of an exercise to develop some skill or other rather than a technique to be honed and used - apparently not.

[lineaway]

21 hours ago, bikerpet said:

I don't quite follow that.
If the roll-up covers 90%, and the RSG roll-up covers 98% of obstacles, why would you learn a double blip as the basic move to get over something? Why not just learn roll-ups and then get good at them?

A roll-up also includes touching the front wheel on the way up or clearing the front wheel, so you can always start to learn wheel placement accuracy and timing via the roll-up, preferably with RSG so the lift is done with clutch more than throttle.

Personally my experience is that my zaps improved out of sight once I got the double blip out of the picture and concentrated on getting RSG throttle/clutch/timing sorted out better. I think dbl blip actually confused the issue by encouraging the front wheel to land too high for a good zap and relying too much on throttle, not developing clutch/throttle timing enough.

 Actually you are not wrong. The zap was made during a time that the suspension was still not very refined. You had to really drop the front end really low to get the desired outcome and it was on the edge. And now most people have learned to drop the tire close to the top. So it is almost a rollup rather than the old style zap.

 But a rider doing a bridge can still get 5 foot of lift from a dead stop.  Not me, but my son comes close.

 I can remember when the bunny hop was introduced with the double blip on our twin shock bikes. We thought we were unstoppable. LOL.

[nhuskys]

It's good to be familiar with all the techniques and not to discount any of them... In my area we ride in snow and ice during the winter, as it makes good practice for riding very wet and muddy events during the regular season. The roll up is your friend and a zap that would work well to get you on top of something slippery, instead of driving your rear wheel into it, also becomes somewhat useless. Any aggressive clutch and throttle are not rewarded, but your using correct body position, being light on the controls and momentum is very much highlighted.

Edited January 24, 2022 by nhuskys