just beginning again, which trials bike?

[crankcase]

In the 1980s I used to muck about on trials bikes such as a Moto Gori 250, never done comps just enjoyed trying to become better at using the bike.

so now I want to buy a trials bike for much the same reasons and maybe in some distant future have a go at an easy beginners event but I want to enjoy taking time to get used to any machine I buy.

I am slim and fit enough so no worries about that, just missing skills and abilities

I have been looking at the new montesa 260 and also classic bultaco project bikes so trying to stay open minded

After taking with a montesa dealer it seems that 2 strokes may need a piston after 200 hrs and then nikasil lined the next time, that put me off a modern 2 stroke.

The new montesa 260 is expensive but comes with all the benefits of a brand new machine, there are a few classic bultacos around Scotland but I wonder how they would feel to ride, spending under 2k is appealing.

I can restore and rebuild any bike so no worries there. I don't need anything bigger than 250 is and would be happy on a TY175 (if 70kg is ok on that machine) I would even build a bantam spacial if I could easily get all the bits.

Price, reliability, easy to ride, spares availability are all considerations.

I know there could be a million options, appreciate advice.

[tshock250]

Your Montesa dealer is talking absolute rubbish in an attempt to sell you a 4RT i'm afraid. 2 stroke trials bikes can literally go for years without needing even piston rings. My advice would be to try a few bikes to see which one suits you, then buy one of those. After all, you want a bike which you enjoy riding first & foremost.

 

[b40rt]

I'd consider another gori or swm, better value than many other bikes of a similar age, and still very competative. 

Lothian trials club have a trial this Sunday out past Gifford, worth a look of you have the time.

 

[crankcase]

Thanks folks,

I'll pop out to Gifford on Sunday, looks like a good club.

regards,

Edited March 21, 2022 by crankcase

[feetupsbetter]

Funny that isn’t it, someone trying to sell you a 7k fourstoke montesa rubbishing every other bike.

Agree with tshock250, it’s all crap. There’s plenty of trials bikes never have a set of rings in their lifetime, many probably go for decades without the engine ever being opened. The old bulto’s & goris you mention won’t have unless they’ve changed hands & been rebuilt as a precautionary process after a long time standing. Some really hard used bikes at top level use will have had a lot of maintenance but most won’t have needed it.

It sounds like you have the funds to buy what you fancy, and the ability/knowledge to repair or rebuild anything as required, so do just that - buy what you fancy, if it don’t work out then swap it later. 2k will buy you a fairly modern bike, just try to find one that’s been looked after, as opposed to the first that comes along or the nearest one to home. Go have a look at that local trial, and talk to as many people as you can to get some background. You might even find a bike that suits right there. Oh, and don’t be afraid of trying competitions, it’s all very friendly & above all fun. We’ve all been over the bars, on our a*** in the river etc at some time so you won’t be doing anything everyone else hasn’t done. Riding in competitions is the best way to learn if you ask me, pushes your limits a bit, and plenty of offers of advice & help along the way.

Welcome along, enjoy !

[crankcase]

Thanks for the good advice.

I would rather buy a used two stroke, miss the sound and smell

I will ask at the local trial events, thinking of a TY250 mono, plenty spares about.

It is amazing how light a new trials bike is, seems about 20kg difference,,paying more for less 

[still trying]

For learning on, go modern. All brands are good, just give each a try and find one that feels right, If the bikes is in good condition , even as old as 2010, will get you a modern bike that has good handling, suspension, breaks, clutch etc. The modern controls are much easier to operate. The breaks are way better and consistant. the power and clutch way better. Maintenance wise, there's less to do. And yes 20kg lighter is a big deal.

The two strokes definitely do not need frequent rebuilds, even if you thrash them. Mine has done expert grade for three years, left in the shed for 17, dragged out, given new air cleaner, changed the fluids and away I went, so far for the last 7 years, (its a 1995 Gas Gas JT35 (327cc) ). More modern bikes are far better than mine that's for real. And its easier to ride than my KT250.

Edited March 22, 2022 by still trying

[turbofurball]

Another vote for "modern"

At the moment I'm mostly riding a '99 Sherco and it's far easier to handle than even my TY175 (which has been refined a lot over standard).  Modern bikes might not look pretty, but they ride far better ... as long as previous owners haven't completely destroyed them through neglect.

[melba26]

On 3/21/2022 at 11:00 PM, crankcase said:

Thanks for the good advice.

I would rather buy a used two stroke, miss the sound and smell

I will ask at the local trial events, thinking of a TY250 mono, plenty spares about.

It is amazing how light a new trials bike is, seems about 20kg difference,,paying more for less 

Hi,

TY250 mono sounds a good choice for where your at, mono suspension is a step up from twin shock SWM/Gori. More robust than modern bikes although a bit heavier. Should retain or increase in value. If you can get one go for a Pinky with disc from brake.

Good luck, Melba

[crankcase]

if I go the new bike route (finance deals make it possible) i'll be looking at the montesa 260 or the beta evo 200? not sure they do a 250. If I buy new it will be a keeper. I'm going to a local trial this weekend to talk with riiders there and may still end up buying an older but modern bike. Regarding new bike (montesa and Beta) engine quality and reliability/maintenance it seems the beta suggests piston replacement at 80 hours run time, they have nikasil so expensive to have replated in the future. Montesa I would have valves to adjust and more frequent oil changes I think.

Are the two strokes really so bad on pistons? with 4 strokes I am used to cars with hydraulic valve lifters, seems stone age to have to do manual valve adjustment these days, so is the Honda engine that advanced?

I have old minis, I expect to adjust the tappets on them, not a 2022 product. Which of the two would you folks suggest? Both will feel fantastic to me having been away from trials bikes for decades.

Regards

[totty79]

The old argument is 2 stroke maintenance is more frequent and 4 stroke is more expensive, more wear vs more parts, but I'm not convinced that it applies that directly to trials. Neither motor is that advanced, packaging, weight and character are key for a trials motor, there's limited need to move beyond stone age.

The Beta and Montesa are a very different bike to ride, better to decide on that basis. On that basis personally I'd suggest a Beta or Gas Gas or Sherco but that's just down to me liking how they ride, I've only had brief rides on a Montesa and I didn't take to it, but many riders love them.

For what it's worth my regularly used 2012 Beta may be on it's original bore and piston, they haven't been changed in the 8 years I've owned it, and looking through the exhaust port it still looks good. It has probably worn out of tolerance and would no doubt be a bit sharper with a new piston, but I've ridden nearly new bikes and any difference is minimal.

Edited March 23, 2022 by totty79

[crankcase]

Well, the government won't let us have new petrol engines in 8 years time so no more 2 or 4 stroke choice. I am sure reality will see that date forgotten

[turbofurball]

Regarding the valves, manual adjustment is normal in motorbike engines - because weight and size is important on any bike that little bit of maintenance is really unimportant.

One additional thing to consider would be a new Electric Motion, you can try one out at Inch Perfect Trials and there's a few people here who have converted ... TBH I would too if I had the money!

[ChrisCH]

4 hours ago, crankcase said:

...Are the two strokes really so bad on pistons? ..

Like you I read the manual and thought that a new piston was a routine thing.  All I can say is that this does not seem to be the reality.  You can buy aftermarket "long life" pistons (https://s3parts.com/en/49-piston- ) if you do need to actually change one, but it seems unlikely you will.

The Beta 250 2T is a very popular bike in the UK.  My missus has one and it is OK.  I have a TRS and I think it is better for a number of reasons.  I know a couple of friends that have Honda/Montesa and they tell me the maintenance is not really any better than a two stroke.  Nice bikes though.

Best value for money IMPO is about 2-3 year old bikes.  If it has not been beaten up on rocks then you get a decent modern bike at a good saving on new price.  If you find you don't like it or want to change to try something else you will not lose much on it.  Older bikes (like the wife's Beta - 2014) are fine but you will need to spend on them.  I have completely replaced the front brake on hers as the old one was rubbish.  My (2017) TRS has the better braktec unit.  All I have done with the TRS so far is new chain and sprockets and it now needs linkage doing after 3 years (me) riding.  I could probably sell it at the same as I bought it less a couple of hundred.

[trapezeartist]

On 3/23/2022 at 1:26 PM, turbofurball said:

One additional thing to consider would be a new Electric Motion, you can try one out at Inch Perfect Trials and there's a few people here who have converted ... TBH I would too if I had the money!

I am one of the converts. The EM is the dog's danglies as far as I am concerned. And as you are starting from scratch you wouldn't have to adapt your riding style to suit electric.