steve shakeshaft Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Why are Honda twinshock bikes so expensive compared to similar aged bikes with 2 stroke motors? Genuinely interested. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve shakeshaft Posted February 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 No you didn't slag off my favourite bike! Presently, I've got a Beamish 250cc. But I might be tempted to get a couple of "friends" to keep it company sometime. I'd like a KT250 (Gollner if poss) and a Majesty. Better keep saving! Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I think I'd have to agree with ferretflasher on this and say that their popularity and therefore their price has risen because they are 4-strokes, therefore a little different in a sea of 2-strokes. Also, they're a Honda and therefore associated with reliability/build quality. They are a nice looking bike too. Predominantly though, Id say it is the 4-stroke aspect. 2-stroke Hondas don't seem that sought after. The last of the 2-stroke aircooled monos with the twin discs was a cracking bike and will destroy an RTL in terms of performance in sections - but which fetches the higher price. For more serious sections such as the ACU Classic the TLR needs a bit of 'upgrading' in some areas to stay with the latest 2-stroke twinshocks but fully sorted ones are very competitve. Steve - if you fancy a Gollner KT, my mate who trades as TY Offroad will have what I think is Gollner KT for sale on his stall at the classic show this weekend. It is complete as far as I know but needs some TLC, as in it is painted all black, including the frame, but I'm sure it is a Gollner underneath. He also has a Godden framed Majesty project bike too... Sorry - couldn't resist teasing you with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1985tlr Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 (edited) My story, In 2002 i buogth my last 2-stroke, a gasgas txt 280pro, a super licht machine. A sayed to myself, the next must be a 4 stroke just because, like written before,sentimental yougth memorys. I always liked the smooth sound and power, but never could buy one. Then i heard the news of a brand new 4-stroke montesa. I wanted to wait a year or two, to the bike would be technical perfect and buy one. Two things that i don't like about the bike: the price is to high, and, more important,it sounds like a havy off-road, and not like the bike Eddy lejeune's. At this point i have already sold my GG, so there was no way back. Now i am restoring a TLR 200, as it is the best alternative, even if it costs a lot of monny. Why is it more expensive then the others? Just ride it and you know. I do like Montesa's old bikes but the sound is whats keeping me from that. My bike is not finished yet, but i can see myself riding it. Not a lot of noise, sigar in my head, and enjoy the feeling in my bike. GreetZ Rob Edited February 20, 2006 by 1985tlr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 As i was riding Fantics during the TLR time, and my dad had a TLR i got to try them side by side... no comparison, the tlr was bloody horrible!!! The clutch was a nightmare, the steering geometry was wrong, the engine would cough and stall and it was bloody heavy. The only good ones were Gollner modified ones... the 300 Fantic i had was a far better bike. After the 301 i had the next year i got an RTL... for 3 months. Rode it in the snow and won the trial... went downhill from there on. Hated it in the dry and went back to Fantic!! me I never could afford a decent trials bike when I was in my 20's, I ended up riding scrambles and enduros in my local club for 15 - 18 years with little or no success but a lot of enjoyment. I bought a TLR in the mid 90's - it was the trials bike I always wanted (I really wanted an RTL or Gollner Honda but could not find one locally). Why did I want one - RELIABILITY, I had no faith in dodgy Spanish or Italian build quality and poor spares supply and in addition it did not fill the air with 2 stroke fumes! Yes it IS HEAVY and if badly set up cough and splutter but after several years I have not required to do any serious work to the motor. I recently purchased and rebuilt a Gollner monoshock TLR250, a couple simple mods to the bike has made it extremely pleasant to ride - its very rare that the bike stalls in a section - if it does now its me not the bike. Yes its not competetive (neither am I and I am the first to admit it), it is heavy and does not steer well or have decent brakes. then again it is something different is a sea of Spanish and Italian 2 strokes! I still ahve my twinshock and eventually I will get round to fitting a thick base gasket to make the power delivery closer to the Gollner bike. Why do people still want these bikes - they are enjoyable to ride, on Sunday after a trial a few guys were cueing up to try out a TLR200 - me included through a couple sections - why BECAUSE ITS DIFFERENT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 No R2, wrong company - my mate Colin trades as TY Offroad - John is Trail and Trials (or is it the other way around) The points you mention on the TLR are exactly those I was thinking off that need modifying to bring it up to a par with Fantics etc. for serious competition - clutch is awful (my 4RT one isn't much better, neither was my 98 315 - must be a Honda thing...) Weight I never felt was an issue, the steering I could put up with, cough stall was a nightmare if you ride without the clutch as I like to (and as the clutch is awful it's catch 22...) power delivery off tickover too quick and they wouldn't rev out, power just flattened off. All ok for sections that are none too testing but it's what needs sorting for the serious stuff. Once done they are very good - but it is a fair bit of work. Part of the enjoyment for those that like tinkering. Worth around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve shakeshaft Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Steve - if you fancy a Gollner KT, my mate who trades as TY Offroad will have what I think is Gollner KT for sale on his stall at the classic show this weekend. It is complete as far as I know but needs some TLC, as in it is painted all black, including the frame, but I'm sure it is a Gollner underneath. He also has a Godden framed Majesty project bike too... Sorry - couldn't resist teasing you with that Thanks for the info on those two bikes. Unfortunately, I've only had the Beamish for about 3 months. So those other bikes are out of the question presently. I've got a few jobs on the go with the Beamish to get it back to pristine condition, I only have a couple of hours a week free, so it's slow going. But I'll get there. Thanks all for the info on the prices of Hondas. I don't think I'll buy one. I could buy the Gollner KT AND the Godden Majesty for the price of one Honda then. I'm greedy I'd take the two bike option! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motu Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 I got the TLR200 because it was cheap! Coming back to trials after 17 years,I rebuilt an old KT250 I had for playing on.I enjoyed myself coming back at Twinshock level,but didn't agree with the KT on some of the lines it chose - I was entering a section and reacting with what it threw at me,I needed a bike that would do what I told it to! I wanted a later twinshock,but they were expensive for what they were.One of our more experianced Expert riders rode a TLR250 in our combined trials,and would beat most other Experts on moderns....I figured it couldn't all be the rider - yeah,right! I found a beat up TLR200 that was used as a hunting bike,hauling up to 3 wild pigs out of the bush at a time.It was an easy rebuild,and I've spent the last 4 years ironing out bugs and learning how to ride a 4 stroke.I think the basic frame is pretty good,the lack of brakes not such a problem with a 4 stroke - but like Woody says,it has a tendancy to stall at the wrong time,and is very agressive off idle,which is impossible to control with the savage clutch.I have geared it 11/50,and ride nearly every section in 1st,being aggressive and keeping the throttle on as much as possible. I still enjoy it,and unless someone tosses a Fantic my way for $10 I'll probably stick with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beamish owners club Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Why are Honda twinshock bikes so expensive compared to similar aged bikes with 2 stroke motors? Genuinely interested. Thanks. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A very good question Steve! Wish I knew why I had to pay a four figure sum for mine yet my Beamish was nearly half that. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve shakeshaft Posted March 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 That's the choice, two Beamish's or one Honda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 I think the rise in the old Honda's popularity is partly due to the "4 Stroke revolution" with the 4RT, Sherco and Scorpa. Personally I fell in love with them and that subtle purring noise in the 80's when they first came out but maybe my tape of P65 bike noises says something else. I've always found the delivery smooth, tractable and they are just fun to ride. Unfortunately being crap I can't do it justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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