ChrisCH Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 I have been asked if I would stand for the committee on my club (happy to). One of the debates about the new ACU website was about the event insurance - so checking people are ACU members with a valid licence. With no plastic card this is difficult for the organisers on the day. One of the current committee has suggested looking at AMCA membership. I would like to know what is the general view about the ACU insurance? Do people think they are insured whilst riding a trial and what do they think they are covered for? I have been looking at this topic and was surprised by my findings. My assumptions were incorrect. I would welcome feedback on your views. Do people think you are covered (third party liability) if you run into another competitor and hurt them? You are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbofurball Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 Does it work the other way around, that if you are hit by someone you can make a claim? If not, what's the point of the insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted January 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, turbofurball said: Does it work the other way around, that if you are hit by someone you can make a claim? If not, what's the point of the insurance? The insurance protects the stewards and visitors, spectators and other third parties. If you take out the optional insurance it covers personal injury where you fall off and hurt yourself (cover is peanuts). Competitor to competitor injury and damage is excluded - whichever way round the claim is made. AMCA cover looks better but you need to email them for a policy copy. I might do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbofurball Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 Wow, yeah that's a bit crap ... I guess most clubs just depend on the "motorsport is dangerous" disclaimers that get signed, though those wouldn't protect the club in the case of a litigious accident victim. This is definitely something that's worth checking yourself, it would be worth having a chat with other clubs directly, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpauls Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 How much is the Trial Rider's annual membership for the ACU? I paid around £20. How much is the Trial Rider's annual membership for the AMCA? This year it was apparently £50 so I have not renewed my membership. Another consideration is that the new ACU website is now poor, but, the AMCA website is absolutely awful (in my opinion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted January 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 Thus far no response from anyone. I have emailed a "specialist" insurer but also no reply. I also thought the amca website was a bit rubbish but I will have a good look at the insurance policy if they do send it then post back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 sorry been busy to a throw out there a in depth response (we’ve just organised our biggest trial of the year) the insurance for events is broken down into many areas I’m not the by any means the expert on this but here goes; if you still have a paper (or PDF) ACU handbook, you'll find a chapter on insurance (that says something like this) what is covered; public liability / third party liability - the risk of a rider hurting/damaging other people (spectators, walkers, etc). this is the main one that everyone must have, most landowner do (should) insist on seeing this. some of the "other" federations out there offer this at a lower level than the ACU does at £40 million (but some people are happy running at this lower level). personal accident (officials) - this is if an official get hurt during the course of their duties, during the event but all set up and take down. this does include some "loss of earnings" (under the ACU). personal accident (riders) - for trials (by and large not mx, enduro, etc) there is a limited amount of cover, like for death, loss of limbs, a month in hospital. it is thus strongly recommended that riders (who don't get sick pay from work) might want to procure personal accident cover. CICA used to be big in this, it’s now done by other providers. road traffic act - most (but not all) road insurance polices (that you have to have to ride on the road) have a clause that says the policy doesn’t cover you if you are taking part in an event (or pizza delivery). the ACU now (5+ years) offers RTA "top up" for riders that already have road insurance on their bikes (for events with road work) - there are some exemptions for stuff like riders with lots of points. landowners - the ACU superficially offer an add on, where the organiser can name the landowner(s) and specifically extend cover to the landowner for a) damage to their property and b) cover from lawsuit arising from the event that rope them in. medical malpractice - there is a policy to cover anyone giving first aid from medical malpractice claims what isn't covered; competitor to competitor - i'm unaware of anyone, anywhere offering you cover for another competitor hitting / damaging you/your bike (or a borrowed bike) during a competition vehicles - no cover for use diggers, tractors, cars, etc as part of the event (my club has brought our own cover for our tractors/plant) other - no cover for aviation, firework displays, freestyle, etc - but if you want to do something novel / isn't listed please ask (eg a hillclimb) anyway so back to your first question on the day at an event (ACU), your riders may have entered online, where the system has checked them out. firstly, there is an onus on the organiser to check if the rider has been banned/suspended between the rider entering and before their event starts (eg night before), the old system would show them in a funny colour, i haven’t seen how it works in the new one. on the day instead of showing a plastic card like the old system, riders are *meant* to show the organiser their (new style) licence (it’s a QR code they were sent via email), and then you the organiser can scan it (with your phone) and that rider's licence (with photo) will pop up. my club did am event yesterday (140+ riders) and maybe a third were ready for this. the rest we had the "ID" the old-fashioned way (driving licence, etc). you the organiser have a "duty of care" to ensure the people riding are the people who have actually entered (bene insured). to your second question as a club that does a lots of mx, enduro and trials *and* owns it's own land, we feel very keenly the need for insurance. we've been sued several times and have had several "major" incidents - the backing of not just the ACU's insurance but its extensive array of layers, loss adjusters, Health and Safety people, etc really pays dividends when **** hits the fan. obviously, you try for it not to happen, we're not running the TT, but they do and they have a team that knows how to "handle" this sort of stuff. the chances of a small-scale trials club needing this are rather more remote but it's something everyone involved should think about. As I said at the top, I’m not the guy on this area, the ACU have people who can go into this in way more depth, if you want I can put you in touch with them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted January 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 Thanks Rabie. I have had a reply from AMCA but it is just a covering letter for the landowner. The "old" ACU website is still live and has the insurance bit. It is good (in one way) to hear your experiences. Clearly the cover is a good thing and it is good to know that the system works when required. My #1 concern is that - as per the policy - competitor to competitor liability is excluded. I have spent some time looking for cover at a personal level and it is more or less non existent. This means if I hit another competitor I am liable for any injury that I might cause them. Personally liable and without limit. Ergo they can sue me and if they win and are awarded damages they can take my property, my business and my savings. My worry is not so much that I will lose everything but that a lot of people do not realise that they are "on the hook" to this extent. I certainly did not prior to last month's committee meeting where there was discussion of the ACU licence - hence my research on this subject. If this is the case it is also a concern that if another person hits me I will have to sue them and I consider most of the club as friends. As it stands I am in half a mind to pack it all in. A very negative outcome. I have asked for quotes on personal accident cover - I will post up when I get more info. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) On 1/13/2023 at 11:02 AM, ChrisCH said: I have been asked if I would stand for the committee on my club (happy to). One of the debates about the new ACU website was about the event insurance - so checking people are ACU members with a valid licence. With no plastic card this is difficult for the organisers on the day. One of the current committee has suggested looking at AMCA membership. I would like to know what is the general view about the ACU insurance? Do people think they are insured whilst riding a trial and what do they think they are covered for? I have been looking at this topic and was surprised by my findings. My assumptions were incorrect. I would welcome feedback on your views. Do people think you are covered (third party liability) if you run into another competitor and hurt them? You are not. Thanks for bringing it to our attention Edited January 17, 2023 by johnnyboxer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted January 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just off the phone to "specialist" insurer and confirm they cannot source cover for competitions. Looks like it simply does not exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) Chris - as far as i know, there has never been (in UK, probably worldwide) competitor to competitor liabilty insurnace. as i understand it, the "law" / courts / etc find / have concluded that this is the inhernet risk of taking part in sport. ie another rider could crash into you during a race. how this applies to trials where (mostly) its one riders in an empty section at a time, is more of a mute point as this risk is much lower (compared to the racing scenario in all other motorcycle sport). hypothetically one could postulate scenarios where you might be in the queue for a section and you get "hit" by an errant bike. people having been racing motorclyces (and cars) for 120 odd years, horses and bicycles for longer.i don't *think* this is an area of risk to be worried about. Edited January 17, 2023 by rabie I still can't spell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted January 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 Thanks again. The relevent insurance certainly must exist at a pro level. I am still working on finding a suitable option for our level of activity. My missus ran into another competitor last year and knocked him off his bike. No harm done to rider or bike or the missus for that matter. He was OK about it. To be fair I would be OK if someone ran into me - just so long as it was the same sort of minor incident. However not everyone is so nice. One of my employees hurt himself through his own stupidity and our insurance company spent 20 grand on legal fees trying to contest the claim and then paid out anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.