mcman56 Posted January 28, 2023 Report Share Posted January 28, 2023 As purchased, my TY175 clutch worked OK but had a some drag and was abrupt compared to a modern bike when released even with a lever arm extension. At some point in time there was a lot more drag and it became more abrupt. It would even stick when riding such that when you pull in the clutch and there was a delay before disengagement even when hot. I sanded the steel plates but I forgot which roughness of paper used. I filed the clutch baskets mostly flat but not totally flat. I also removed some burrs found on the ears of the fiber plates. All plates looked flat. It was improved and maybe similar to when I purchased the bike but after a small number of rides is back at its worst. Could this be the steel plates getting polished up again? I have a glass bead blaster. Could that be better? Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbofurball Posted January 30, 2023 Report Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) I use dexron 3 ATF fluid instead of oil in my TY175, it works a lot better than regular gear oil (takes a couple of changes to get all the oil out of the system). Edited to add: this was what fixed my sticky unfriendly clutch. Edited January 30, 2023 by turbofurball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted January 30, 2023 Report Share Posted January 30, 2023 A lever arm extension reduces how far the plates move apart so can make disengagement worse. Old friction plates can make disengagement worse. If they are more than few years old I would replace them. It usually takes quite a few hours of serious clutch punishment to polish the roughness out of the steel plates. Yes bead blasting is a good thing for the steel plates, as is 120 grit wet-and-dry paper lubricated with kero. Some people mill grooves in them with a milling machine. Anything that helps the air to get in between the plates without bending the plates is a good thing. Is the pressure plate staying parallel with the basket as it moves out? Is the cam face pitted? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcman56 Posted January 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2023 I still need to pull it apart but have never looked at the cam. It looks like they are unavailable. Can they be refinished? Do you have any experience with different brands of friction plates? Yamaha, EBC and Vesrah are available in addition to non branded probably Chinese ones. Do you have any idea what kind of grooves can be put in the metal plates? Are there any pictures out there? It seems like they would encourage warping. IIRC, the OEM plates are dimpled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 10 hours ago, mcman56 said: I still need to pull it apart but have never looked at the cam. It looks like they are unavailable. Can they be refinished? Do you have any experience with different brands of friction plates? Yamaha, EBC and Vesrah are available in addition to non branded probably Chinese ones. Do you have any idea what kind of grooves can be put in the metal plates? Are there any pictures out there? It seems like they would encourage warping. IIRC, the OEM plates are dimpled. The cam face can be refinished by welding and machining. The cam end of the pushrod may need to be refinished too. It's meant to be hemispherical. I've seen NOS cams advertised on eBay. Yamaha and EBC and Goodridge are good. Haven't tried Vesrah. Yes milling the grooves is a warping risk but some people do it. I would think you can buy new steel plates from Yamaha if you think there's a problem. I use wet-and-dry paper on mine. I'm still using the original steel plates after four rebores and two new conrod kits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcman56 Posted March 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 On 1/30/2023 at 7:00 PM, feetupfun said: The cam face can be refinished by welding and machining. The cam end of the pushrod may need to be refinished too. It's meant to be hemispherical. I've seen NOS cams advertised on eBay. Yamaha and EBC and Goodridge are good. Haven't tried Vesrah. Yes milling the grooves is a warping risk but some people do it. I would think you can buy new steel plates from Yamaha if you think there's a problem. I use wet-and-dry paper on mine. I'm still using the original steel plates after four rebores and two new conrod kits. The sticking got so bad the bike would occasionally pull a wheelie when starting with clutch in.....even with a warm engine. I pulled it apart but nothing looks that bad. There is a little mark on the clutch actuator but I can barely feel it with a fingernail. I may be able to polish it out. Plates are not warped and specs in manual are met...if I can read the decimals in the manual copy properly. Steel plates had some minor corrosion in the past but had been sanded. Should that matter? The only odd thing was that I could not push the actuating rod out with a wire so resorted to 100 psi air. It looks a little dirty. Ball was in place. Pics Actuator https://ibb.co/60Q6Gs5 Hub https://ibb.co/74pXKdY Dimensions https://ibb.co/WtnFkN5 Plates & Rods https://ibb.co/pQTpTVd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 15 hours ago, mcman56 said: The sticking got so bad the bike would occasionally pull a wheelie when starting with clutch in.....even with a warm engine. I pulled it apart but nothing looks that bad. There is a little mark on the clutch actuator but I can barely feel it with a fingernail. I may be able to polish it out. Plates are not warped and specs in manual are met...if I can read the decimals in the manual copy properly. Steel plates had some minor corrosion in the past but had been sanded. Should that matter? The only odd thing was that I could not push the actuating rod out with a wire so resorted to 100 psi air. It looks a little dirty. Ball was in place. Pics Actuator https://ibb.co/60Q6Gs5 Hub https://ibb.co/74pXKdY Dimensions https://ibb.co/WtnFkN5 Plates & Rods https://ibb.co/pQTpTVd The sticking pushrod may be making the action jerky. The pitted cam face will be making the action jerky and heavier than it needs to be. The photo labelled Hub is the Basket and the drive fingers on it look OK. The steel clutch plates look OK but they would look better if you roughened them some more. You didn't show the friction plates. They can cause what you've described when they get old and/or smooth. I never seen a set of friction plates that wore down to the service limit but I've seen dozens of sets of friction plates that were useless because of old age or because someone had used the wrong sort of oil at some stage or because they were shiny smooth. Are all the springs the same length? Does the pressure plate stay parallel with the plates as it moves in and out? Does the hub have grooves where it contacts the steel plates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcman56 Posted March 16, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 I have had the bike for a couple of years but have no idea how old the friction plates are and am not sure what a "bad" friction plate looks like. What is the wrong oil? I have been using Dextron ATF but I think it is now called DEX/ MERC Clutch spring lengths are within 0.25 mm. I'll have to inspect plate movement when I get it back together. The basket has been filed but I'm planning to try cleaning up the fingers on a mill to ensure straightness. Friction Plate - https://ibb.co/fv3qJzk Hub - https://ibb.co/yhJrbdd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted March 17, 2023 Report Share Posted March 17, 2023 The actuator could have been alot of the issue. CLEAN it up and grease it generously going back together 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted March 17, 2023 Report Share Posted March 17, 2023 11 hours ago, mcman56 said: I have had the bike for a couple of years but have no idea how old the friction plates are and am not sure what a "bad" friction plate looks like. What is the wrong oil? I have been using Dextron ATF but I think it is now called DEX/ MERC Clutch spring lengths are within 0.25 mm. I'll have to inspect plate movement when I get it back together. The basket has been filed but I'm planning to try cleaning up the fingers on a mill to ensure straightness. Friction Plate - https://ibb.co/fv3qJzk Hub - https://ibb.co/yhJrbdd You may well use Dexron ATF in it now, but if the wrong sort of oil has been used at some time in the life of the clutch plates (before you owned the bike), the surface properties of the friction plates may have been (permanently) affected. The worst "wrong" oils in my experience for wet motorbike clutches are "friction-modified" 4 stroke engine oils and "extreme-pressure" or 'EP" transmission oils. There is no way to tell if your friction plates have been contaminated with those types of oil at some point, but you can be certain that if you buy new plates, they will not have been contaminated. One thing that can be seen in your photo is that that friction plate has a shiny friction surface. That's not a good thing because it will not be as good at letting go of the steel plate surfaces when you pull the lever in, compared with a friction plate that is not shiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted March 17, 2023 Report Share Posted March 17, 2023 On 3/15/2023 at 12:25 PM, mcman56 said: The only odd thing was that I could not push the actuating rod out with a wire so resorted to 100 psi air. It looks a little dirty. Ball was in place. I think it would be worthwhile to ensure the passage the actuating rod goes through is clean and clear. To ensure smooth motion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy53 Posted March 17, 2023 Report Share Posted March 17, 2023 When I use ATF to try to improve a clutch, I change the oil after acouple of hour of riding 2 or 3 times before deciding if I need to change the plates, sometime it work sometime....... Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcman56 Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 It turns out I was trying to push the rod out from the wrong location so it was not really stuck. I cleaned and polished the sliding parts. Steel plates were glass beaded and the friction plates replaced with Yamaha parts. Swapping spring locations while checking with an indicator got the plate to move out evenly within .05 mm. Clutch works great now. I suspect it was really the new friction plates that helped the most. I did polish the actuator but have never looked at another old one for comparison. I suspect that all 45 year old actuators look less than perfect. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcman56 Posted February 14 Author Report Share Posted February 14 Once again, the clutch started to drag and hot stick. I then replaced the steel plates with new Yamaha plates, it worked well for a short while but started doing it again. These plates do have the dimples. I just sanded the steel plates with 180 grit and it seems OK for now. Could it be that you need to replace the friction and steel plates at the same time? This seems strange. I also get cold stick but don't care about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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