TRS vs Beta - subjective feel differences?

[bikerpet]

I've been riding Beta for a few years now, 2017 300 for 3-400 hours and now a 2020 for another 360 hours.
Prior to that I had a 2015 (I think it was) Sherco 290 (disliked that one) and before that a 2007 GasGas 250 (which I still have but haven't ridden for ages).

I'm thinking about stepping onto a TRS RR 300 but it would be a step into the unknown as I have never ridden one and don't know anyone within 300km with one I could borrow. I'm OK with that - there's no "bad" bikes out there these days so I'm comfortable buying one un-ridden - it'll be trials bike, all good.

What I'd like to hear is some comments about how the two bikes, Beta 300 (not factory) and TRRS RR 300 feel compared to each other. The subjective "feels like it holds turns better", "feels easier to hop", "more aggressive throttle", etc.

Background
Rider - I ride Trial 3 in Australia (Trial 1 being the expert/pro class), not particularly well. I'm 60 & still improving my riding slowly, but recognise my improvement on harder obstacles is going to get capped by advancing age in the not too far distant future. I'd like a bike that will help take me as far as I can go. I'll never ride above T3. I don't need a 300, but I like their tractorability down low and don't have any issue with the power of the 300 Beta. I compete for fun, and challenge - I really don't care where my results are as long as I've had a good challenging but enjoyable ride and learnt something new. And haven't hurt myself!
Beta - I'm pretty happy with it - it just goes without any drama. Starts easily every time, things don't break on them and because they've been around in pretty much the same form for years they are pretty well sorted. The clutch might not be the best in the pack, but I haven't had a problem with either of mine. I quite like the slightly more rearward peg position of the Beta, but no big deal. I've upgraded the rear shock to a TRP which I'm very happy with.
TRRS - is a more recent design, a better clutch, better suspension. They seem to be pretty reliable and well built, which is important to me - I put around 300 hours a year on my bike & I don't want to be constantly adjusting and fixing things. I hear the engines are pretty snappy - I'm OK with that, but do wonder if it's going to be a hindrance. I also hear the suspension works very well, which is perhaps the weakest point of the Beta.

Thanks

[marky dee]

Hi , i am 60 to...!! , and very happy whit my TRRS GOLD ..., suspension match better ..,lovely motor , like you set very nice bild.. , and modern !!!!!!! , its my fourth TRRS..., you have to try it....!!!, greats  , Mark

[ChrisCH]

I have a TRS 250 (RR) and the wife has a Beta 250 (Evo).  I also fall into the same age group ☺️

The TRS has the better brakes and suspension but both bikes are very capable and I doubt that I would ever find the limit of either of them.  My wife's bike is a bit old (2014) and so not as sharp as my TRS (2022).  She is very happy with it but I have found it a bit lacking (maybe the age not the brand?)  As a result I have fitted a Galfer front disc rotor and Galfer pads and replaced the front master with a braktec one (as used on the factory bikes).  The front is now as good as my TRS and locks on a single finger light pull on the lever.

If she keeps the bike (she fancies an EM) I will probably upgrade the rear shock to an Ohlins (or maybe the TRP as you like it and it is a bit cheaper)

I find it slightly easier to static balance the Beta than the TRS.  If the missus wants the EM I will probably trade my bike in for it and keep hers purely on cost.  I like my TRS a lot but hey - its just a bike.  (Did I just type that?  OMG) 😁

[lineaway]

I talked my son into having the first TRS in our club. Great bike except two things. The front end is too light, which causes it to push. They also tend stall for whatever reason. Mechanically sound, but still having water pump seal issues and the air filter is not as easy to get to as it should be.

 At your age the e button might be great, but the Trs is the easiest starti ng bike without it.

[lineaway]

All Trs issues here.

https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/calling-out-trs-owners-questions-things-to-share.1288338/

 It does do most things better than a Beta. If I ever buy a 2 stroke again it would be a Beta. Hopefully Beta upgrades the Evo soon.

[ksv]

From people that have ridden both I am told that the TRS has very similar ride characteristics as a Gas Gas. They were both developed to suit Adam Raga and I believe both had involvement from Jordi Tarres, so the ride is similar. 

[lineaway]

By the way I did ride the 300 rr for about 9 months until my Montesa 301 finally showed up. I did give the TRRS a fair try. I went from too light a front end to too heavy!  I would have bought a 300 Gold instead of the Montesa, but the front end was just to vague and did not inspire confidence. 

[bikerpet]

7 hours ago, ChrisCH said:

I have a TRS 250 (RR) and the wife has a Beta 250 (Evo).  I also fall into the same age group ☺️

The TRS has the better brakes and suspension but both bikes are very capable and I doubt that I would ever find the limit of either of them.  My wife's bike is a bit old (2014) and so not as sharp as my TRS (2022).  She is very happy with it but I have found it a bit lacking (maybe the age not the brand?)  As a result I have fitted a Galfer front disc rotor and Galfer pads and replaced the front master with a braktec one (as used on the factory bikes).  The front is now as good as my TRS and locks on a single finger light pull on the lever.

If she keeps the bike (she fancies an EM) I will probably upgrade the rear shock to an Ohlins (or maybe the TRP as you like it and it is a bit cheaper)

I find it slightly easier to static balance the Beta than the TRS.  If the missus wants the EM I will probably trade my bike in for it and keep hers purely on cost.  I like my TRS a lot but hey - its just a bike.  (Did I just type that?  OMG) 😁

I am happy with the Beta brakes mostly - no problem at all with the front, the back fails after long steep downhills but comes back quickly. No amount of bleeding seems to change that. No big deal as I'm aware of it. So I'll be intrigued to ride a bike with even sharper front brakes.
Interesting you find the Beta easier to static balance, that's an area I need all the help I can get.
I'd definitely recommend the TRP, they work extremely well. The difference was very significant from the stock shock and was plug-and-play. No more hard bottoming, more compliant feel ... Excellent value I reckon.

6 hours ago, lineaway said:

I talked my son into having the first TRS in our club. Great bike except two things. The front end is too light, which causes it to push. They also tend stall for whatever reason. Mechanically sound, but still having water pump seal issues and the air filter is not as easy to get to as it should be.

 At your age the e button might be great, but the Trs is the easiest starti ng bike without it.

Go easy fella! I'm not ready for an old-man button yet. :-)

I'd seen the TRS thread and the water pump issues - that does bother me a little, but it seems some bikes have it some don't and it isn't a huge job to change seals so I guess I can live with it.
The light front is interesting, I'd not heard that before.
Air filter seems unnecessarily irritating, but I've seen the little plastic spring holder thingy which seems to make changes easier.

When you say they stall, do you mean they stall easily at low rpm, or do they just stop for unknown reasons?
I see they've made the flywheel heavier on the '23 model, maybe that's to help solve that issue?

5 hours ago, lineaway said:

All Trs issues here.

https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/calling-out-trs-owners-questions-things-to-share.1288338/

 It does do most things better than a Beta. If I ever buy a 2 stroke again it would be a Beta. Hopefully Beta upgrades the Evo soon.

So if the TRS does most things better than a Beta why would you buy the Beta again?
Is it just because of the light front? Or is it the sum of the light front, the water pump, the air filter & the stalling?

The thing that most concerns me at present is that in the advrider thread there was a post showing a spilt front engine mount - right across the crankcase. There was a comment that was a known issue, which suggests it's not ridiculously uncommon although I haven't found another reference to the same issue. That does really concern me.
I see the '22 (or was it '23?) they talked about improved crankcase manufacture and heat treatment, which supports the idea that there might have been a problem when the new cases where introduced on the '21.
So far that's the only thing that really makes me nervous.

It's hard to go past Beta for solid reliability and ease of maintenance - the EVO has been around long enough that all the gremlins have been worked out. Of course I'm sure some of the newer designs have improved on various areas (I hear TRS linkages are much easier to service, but I doubt it's a major time saver for a non-professional mechanic like me).
But lots of people comment on the quality of TRS.

[lineaway]

In the loose stuff the Trs has a mind of it's own. All of a sudden it takes off, but I would still be clean. The Beta is rock solid in a section, besides it still has the best ground clearance and fuel range. In my 51 years of trials I have owned more Beta"s than any other brand, and I have had them all. Good luck in your decision. Every time I see my 2016 Beta factory at an event, I wonder what I was thinking.

 

[baldilocks]

I dont doubt what @lineawaysays in terms of the front being light but that's one of the things I like. Different bikes suit different riders, I tend to be too far forward on the bike so don't really get on with the Beta. The TRS is more stable on the front end than my previous Gas Gas bikes.

 

This is my third Trs. Still yet to change a water pump seal or a cdi. People overfill the radiators which can pop the seal. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lineaway]

 We popped the waterpump seal at a 80 mile 80 section 2 days trials with average elevation 9500 ft. 

And yes I know riders that have bought more than 4 new Trs's  our club has about 20% Trs's now which is about the same for Montesa.

 Our best rider has been on a trs since 2019 now. But then again he was a great bike trials rider. ( He has gone to the world championship ) 

3 of us that rode Trs's bought new cota 301's  We have 125 years of riding together and alot of serious riding in. All of us had the same opnion.

I still think the trs was a great addition to the trials community. Great bike, with less quirks than most.

[bikerpet]

Well I'm now in a position to start answering my own question. I just acquired a 2021 One RR 300 with low hours. Only had one real ride with it so far, but I'll start with with that.

• The front definitely feels lighter. Makes it very noticeably easier to hop.
• Feels like there is considerably less rotating mass in the engine. It picks up RPM significantly quicker, and also loses it faster so doesn't carry up things unless you wind it up a bit more. The quick acceleration has seen me lose traction more often than I would on the Beta, but I'm pretty sure I'll adjust fairly quickly and that will go away.
• It's a strange thing, but the lighter front doesn't translate into a heavier rear. It actually feels a bit more sensitive to body weight to the rear to get traction. It makes me concentrate on better posture which could be good long term perhaps. EDIT: after a few hours on it I'll revise this - it's actually easier to find traction on the TRS.
• Suspension is a step up, although this is comparing an RR to a standard Evo so not entirely apples and apples. That said, my Beta has a TRP rear shock that was a significant step up from the standard shock. The TRS is big step up from the standard Beta rear.
• Brakes are considerably sharper than the Beta Grimeca. Taking a bit of getting used to as I didn't have a problem with the Beta brakes (except losing the rear on very long steep downhills - never did get that entirely solved).
• Clutch is nice. I need more time to really get the feel of it, but first sensations are that it is easier to work in the slip zone. I'm not sure that the lever movement is any bigger, but it just feels easier to modulate the slip.
• The body work is bulkier above the pegs, makes the bike feel fatter and a bit less movement across the bike. Don't notice it too much when riding but it's quite noticeable when I first get on.
• It's harder to kick than the 2020 Beta 300, similar to the 2017 Beta 300.
• Overall it feels more lively - hops easier, accelerates quicker, generally just feels a bit lighter and quicker to respond all round. I'd say that it's probably a bit less forgiving than the Beta.

So far I'm very happy with the move to TRS. I like the feel of it and everything I've looked at (I spent about 6 hours prepping it before I rode) is nicely built. I'm looking forward to getting onto some loose stuff to see how I find that, and also to getting confident enough on it to tackle some of my hardest obstacles to see if it makes me look better 😄

EDIT: after 9 hours on it I'm starting to get comfortable with the TRS. And loving it! I'm riding noticeably better doing things on the back wheel, stationary zaps and hopping. The clutch is snappy but so consistent and easy to find the right amount of slip.
It's definitely more responsive than the Beta which is good, but could be bad. I think the Beta is a bit more forgiving. The TRS could certainly get out of hand much faster if you're not on it. The Beta feels a bit more solid on the ground, but the TRS is easier to move about, hop, zap etc.
I definitely feel like the Beta has more flywheel inertia, so it revs up a bit slower and tractors on up things more easily, it also tends to be more stall-resistant. That slightly slower response makes it less of a handful if you're a bit less than accurate on clutch and throttle.
The TRS just feels more like a highly strung race horse.
Remember this is a standard Beta EVO vs a TRS RR, I don't know how the RR would compare to the EVO Factory as I've never ridden one.

Edited March 14, 2023 by bikerpet

[F5Dave]

That's encouraging to hear.  I've bought a 23 250RR sight unseen so unridden.  But its somewhere in shipping between our two main islands (New Zealand) during a period of shipping strife with all sorts of delays.   Hope will get it for weekend.  Sniff. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by F5Dave

[bikerpet]

2 hours ago, F5Dave said:

That's encouraging to hear.  I've bought a 23 250RR sight unseen so unridden.  But its somewhere in shipping between our two main islands (New Zealand) during a period of shipping strife with all sorts of delays.   Hope will get it for weekend.  Sniff. 

Good choice I reckon. The 250 should be a ripper. The 300 has well more than enough power!

[F5Dave]

Thanks.

Finally got it on Friday.  Love it so far. Just mucking around on it to bed it in.  Adjusting lever etc.  1.2 hrs.  Rebled front brake as seemed to come in a bit.  Apparently they ship them with bars off in crates so air can get in.