Cookiemonster Posted February 17, 2023 Report Share Posted February 17, 2023 Was riding last weekend without any issues then in the afternoon bike refused to start hadnt dropped the bike or hit anything hard bike ran fine all morning fresh fuel did the throttle reset still nothing so went home got home to clean bike & it started but the died after a couple of minutes so new plug no luck plugs not exactly wet but smells of fuel so hoping not fuel related does this sound right? no spark so will check all connectors for anything obvious however cant for the life of me remove the 2 bolts on the fuel injector to allow me to remove the tank do I definitely need to remove the injector first? will remove the bank angle sensor & replace with widget bought on line also bought a digital multi meter to go through kill switch, coil etc not electrically minded but determined to give it a go will also look at throttle play but not had this type of problem before as always any help is appreciated thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted February 17, 2023 Report Share Posted February 17, 2023 First thing is to start with the easiest tning first. Turn the idle screw one full turn open (counter clockwise) and again do the reset. As far as the tank there is a quick connect connection on the hose. Had to take a friends tank off after his son decided to fill the tank with a handfull of dirt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonster Posted February 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2023 Managed to undo the bolts & remove tank after the re routing of some other pipe work checked & cleaned all connectors then turned my attention to the bank angle senor had to remove air box & rear shock to get at the final bolt fitted the widget to the loom & re assembled everything kicked over a few times then did the reset but still wouldn’t start idle screw 3 1/2 turns out from fully in so hopefully that’s about right removed plug & still not wet but also no spark will move onto the kill switch coil etc tomorrow thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrsunt Posted February 17, 2023 Report Share Posted February 17, 2023 Did you link the outside wires together on the bank angle sensor? I have come across the earth wire bolt at the bottom of the ht coil coming loose before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Cookiemonster said: Managed to undo the bolts & remove tank after the re routing of some other pipe work checked & cleaned all connectors then turned my attention to the bank angle senor had to remove air box & rear shock to get at the final bolt fitted the widget to the loom & re assembled everything kicked over a few times then did the reset but still wouldn’t start idle screw 3 1/2 turns out from fully in so hopefully that’s about right removed plug & still not wet but also no spark will move onto the kill switch coil etc tomorrow thanks Where, did you come up with the 3 1/2 turns. ALL you had to do is 1 turn out. The idle needs to be above 1900 rpm. Buy a tach. Edited February 18, 2023 by lineaway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) I agree with Lineway turn the tick-over/idle out about 1 more turn than it already was and then do a reset and try and start it again. If it even kind of kicks over go 1/2 more and try again. If it starts get a tachometer and set it to 1800-1900. Another common issue I have seen that is easy to check is that your throttle cable isn't slightly tight, if its even just a little tight it will keep the bike from starting, if you are not 100% sure make it a little extra loose and try a reset and start again. If still nothing you can attempt to see if maybe its getting a negative throttle setting in the ECU by putting a thin washer behind the throttle stop to see if that 0's the ECU and lets it start. (PS. this is not a common fault, just in the same vane is the tight cable) After all that I would then start looking at things like a bad ground, loose connectors, power to the injector or fuel pump, etc. Good luck. Edited February 18, 2023 by jonnyc21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonster Posted February 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 Thanks everyone as mentioned I’ve removed the bank angle sensor& fitted that widget I bought on line so hopefully can eliminate that i got the 3 to 3 1/2 turns out from fully in for the idle off this site when I was looking for tips on how to fix the bike i do have an apico hour/tachometer but can’t get the tachometer to work...... will look at freeing off the throttle cable & also the thin washer behind the throttle stop (where is that?) when I start to check the electrics with the MM i am starting to think it’s fuel related as the plugs not wet thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrsunt Posted February 19, 2023 Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 It’s not something stupid like a faulty kill switch or lanyard? The Honda kill switch is fairly robust but lanyards can have issues. Disconnect it to see if that helps. The play in the throttle cable or idle shouldn’t contribute to the no spark problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted February 19, 2023 Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 Good catch, I forgot to consider a faulty kill switch or lanyard, I had a bad lanyard get me once, easy to disconnect and check. Making sure I am clear on what I was saying in relation to play in the throttle cable; I agree if there is even a little play it shouldn't be a factor, however if it is tight enough or pinched and not letting it return back to closed/0 the ECU on both my 07 4RT and my 17 300RR will prevent them from starting. That is why its important not to apply any throttle when starting the bike. On a different note, I did once do some work on my 07 and forgot to re-connect the power to the fuel pump, took me a about an hour of headache that next weekend to figure out what I had done before I was able to get the bike started. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrsunt Posted February 19, 2023 Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 When the throttle body isn’t fully closed does that kill the spark? Might be worth an experiment next time I’m tinkering. Yep, that pesky fuel pump wire has had me before. Usually after a few Peroni’s 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 5 hours ago, jrsunt said: When the throttle body isn’t fully closed does that kill the spark? Might be worth an experiment next time I’m tinkering. Yep, that pesky fuel pump wire has had me before. Usually after a few Peroni’s Not sure if it kills spark or fuel, though I am on the side of thinking fuel as couple of full throttle kick overs dose the reset and I would think you would want to purge excess fuel from the system before attempting a restart from a stall or some other unexpected bike stop issue. (could be both I suppose) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 Had this with mine over the weekend, a mechanic serviced it last week and went through it all (valves/bearings/oils etc) all running fine and last thing he did was turn the tickover down as he thought it was too high (he's used to carbed Trials bikes) Picked it up on Sat and he went to run it up, no start Plug out and smelt of fuel, no spark Put another new plug in, no spark He then told me about the tickover, as his final job Aha, turned it out... 1 fullout on the throttle body Throttle reset and fired right up, he was amazed Runs fine now 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Wondering on progress with this one? Not sure what else to suggest but If all else has failed maybe time to start double checking all of the ground wires, check valve clearances, pull the fuel pump and run 12v to it to see if its running, etc. Really hoping you have had some luck on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonster Posted February 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Thanks for all your replies wont have chance to look again until the weekend you mention valve clearances jonnyc21 could this cause a no spark issue? ill look at the wiring diagram in the back of the manual to locate the ground (earth?) wires & try out the multi meter I’ve bought Cookiemonster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted February 24, 2023 Report Share Posted February 24, 2023 8 hours ago, Cookiemonster said: Thanks for all your replies wont have chance to look again until the weekend you mention valve clearances jonnyc21 could this cause a no spark issue? ill look at the wiring diagram in the back of the manual to locate the ground (earth?) wires & try out the multi meter I’ve bought Cookiemonster No valve clearance wouldn't cause a no spark issue, however it could cause a no start issue. If you are sure you don't have spark that wouldn't be your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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