miner Posted July 2, 2023 Report Share Posted July 2, 2023 Anyone switched from semi to fully synthetic on the older TXT Pro (07 250)? I was able to get Petronas 10w-40 semi before and maybe able to get again… fully synthetic will be easier to get though. Mindful of the clutch and not sure how it’ll take to fully synthetic? Bike currently in a hundred bits… but finally getting the time to rebuild it. Front and rear wheel bearings changed, carb stripped and floats replaced. Don’t have enough 5w oil as finish the forks today, ordered some from Amazon. The Petronas oil is massively overpriced on Amazon, as are most of the other semi synthetic options.😬 Front and rear brakes to do, going to strip the callipers whilst the bike’s in bits. Also a bearing, oil seal and two o-rings short for doing the motor bottom end. Pick them up midweek. Hopefully have it done over the next weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted July 3, 2023 Report Share Posted July 3, 2023 All season excavator hydraulic oil 👍 cheap because you buy it in huge quantities and need only half a litre for a motorcycle oil change, works great even in sub zero temperature riding, change it frequently and it's the right stuff. Great for 2-stoke transmissions and Montesa Cota 4RT transmission which is separate from the engine oil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted July 3, 2023 Report Share Posted July 3, 2023 On trial bikes it's not the transmission which matters for type of oil it's the clutch which is the number one priority. On gassers ATF was always best if riding the big stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miner Posted July 3, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2023 Cheers guys… I’m not a big fan of ATF… but I do have a surplus of Mercon V & LV to hand. 😅 Semi-synthetic becoming old hat nowadays, most things are synthetic now. I switched to fully synthetic in my CBR600 and the clutch was toast 1000 miles later… it was ~26k miles old by then, subjected to track days and super sticky track rubber in that 1000 miles though. Clutch springs also 0.3mm off the sacked out limit. I could be being a little paranoid about semi > synthetic. 😅 Not the switch from mineral oil it once was on the motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apriljo Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 On 7/2/2023 at 8:05 PM, lemur said: All season excavator hydraulic oil 👍 cheap because you buy it in huge quantities and need only half a litre for a motorcycle oil change, works great even in sub zero temperature riding, change it frequently and it's the right stuff. Great for 2-stoke transmissions and Montesa Cota 4RT transmission which is separate from the engine oil. Doesn’t surprise me that you can use hydraulic oil. There’s lots of different types, viscosities, additives and specs. Is there anything you’re looking for in particular when you choose which to buy? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 9 hours ago, apriljo said: Doesn’t surprise me that you can use hydraulic oil. There’s lots of different types, viscosities, additives and specs. Is there anything you’re looking for in particular when you choose which to buy? I've used Kubota, New Holland (Ambra) Johne Deere and Hyundai branded oils and found them all to work almost equally well, Yes to hydraulic oils using a different spec then multi-grade engine oils. ISO spec on what I'm running now is ISO 46 Excavators and farm tractors have everything inside them that you will ever find in a motorcycle transmission but typically operate way longer hours in far more extreme conditions. I owned an excavator that carried 45 gallons of hydraulic oil and it even had a water separator on the hydraulic oil. A motorcycle transmission doesn't need multi-grade engine oil that contains detergents or friction modifiers which are counter-productive to the machines operation, you don't want oil that turns to bubbles and you don't want water, fuel or friction modifiers in contact with your rubberized cork clutch plates, hence hydraulic oil changed frequently is perfect for the job. ... the concept of synthetic oil is that it theoretically lasts longer and requires fewer changes, but the best scenario for your motorcycles clutch and transmission oil is to replace the oil frequently. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miner Posted July 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2023 Went out yesterday to get two 25x1.5 o-rings, 35x45x12 needle bearing, 12x20x5 oil seal and 10w-40 semi synthetic oil... came back two hours later demented with two o-rings and ordered the rest on desert cart. Ordered two quarts of Lucas 10w-40 semi synthetic. Suitable grade hydraulic oil not a bad shout. I don't like ATF as its not intended for pinion geared boxes... BuT bUsEs uSE ATf AnD tHey'Re MAssIvE!! They sure are AND full of clutches... but people on the internet don't understand anything about the difference between pinion and planetary gear sets loading. 🤓 Might be OK... but its not for me. Would prefer a light hydraulic oil. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted July 5, 2023 Report Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, miner said: but people on the internet don't understand anything about the difference between pinion and planetary gear sets loading Educate us, please. A comparison of loads on an automatic 40ton truck v's the loads going through a 70kg bike would be interesting. Edited July 5, 2023 by b40rt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miner Posted July 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2023 31 minutes ago, b40rt said: Educate us, please. A comparison of loads on an automatic 40ton truck v's the loads going through a 70kg bike would be interesting. Quick google brought this up… covers it well. Torque values are not compatible but it’s not just about that, it’s also about loading area and retention of lubrication. https://www.gordonrussell.com/articles-3-the-differences-between-planetary-and-spur-gear-motors This one covers gearbox types very well. https://granvilleoil.com/news?artID=9#:~:text=The most obvious answer to,fluid is for automatic transmissions. There’s also the specifics of the oil itself and it’s shear resistance which leads to reduction in viscosity over time under load. https://www.marinelink.com/news/analysis-oils-what353514 For a trials engine’s torque output, its maybe ok depending on the fluid used… but if it was meant to be used with ATF the engineers would’ve specified it instead of 10w-40 (or equivalent). Being an engineer I’m going to side with them. Also got sick of dumping silver oil out my old KTM when running ATF in it. Might be ok but it’s a no from me based on the above. 🤓🍻 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted July 5, 2023 Report Share Posted July 5, 2023 Whilst some manual gearboxes do use transmission fluids in place of gear oil, the same cannot be said for putting gear oil into an automatic transmission. Gear oil is much too viscous for these systems and will cause clogging between components. Interesting read 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miner Posted July 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2023 Aye. Tribology (mating faces and lubrication) is a science on its own, a deep rabbit hole to go down. 😵🤯🤓 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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