Butch Posted September 18, 2023 Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 Okay, first thing is that I'm not new to 2 stroke motorcycles. I'm 59 years old and have been around 2 stroke dirt bikes since 1973 was my first mini bike. I've owned several bikes over the years. KX 250 CR 250 CR 500 YZ 250 and a Montesa 250 trials bike. So the bike was delivered 2 months ago and pushed into my garage. I haven't had a chance to ride it because of recovering from surgery. Finally the time comes to fire it up and take a first ride. Absolutely not! I can't get this bike to start no way no how. I tried for 2 days until I was too sore to continue. I changed the gas in the tank and drained the carburetor because I didn't know what they put in it for dealer prep. Using motorex Cross power full synthetic 2 stroke oil at 67:1 as manual suggests. Of all the bikes I've owned I have NEVER had one this hard to start. So while doing a lot of research I see people talk about using a technique? What technique? I never heard of such a thing. So exactly what is the golden technique to get a Gas Gas trials bike started? Then I read lay it on the ground for awhile before starting it? What? Never heard of that either. Then it's find TDC? Maybe this is a stupid question but how do you find TDC on a motorcycle without removing the plug? Then I read the nightmare people hlave about breaking the starter mechanism from you guessed it, kicking too much. So I'm actually starting to hate this bike. And what's up with people saying about having to time your start? If I were new to motorcycles I'd just say well okay this is how it is, but I know better. What the heck is going on with these bikes? I see videos of people standing flat foot on the ground and kicking it over with 1 kick. Do you have to be 6'3" tall and weigh 230 pounds to start a Gas Gas? Then I'm totally screwed because I'm 5'8 and weigh 145 pounds. I guess I have a $7400 paperweight now? I read about a decompression hole in the cylinder head? What? Where is it? Mine doesn't have that or I don't know what I'm looking at. I'm about ready to try to sell it and just get what I can get for it because I can't use this motorcycle. I'm in central Pennsylvania. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadarnvice Posted September 18, 2023 Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 personally, i would put a fresh plug in (i've been advised to run an iridium plug in my 280) , put fresh fuel in and give it go. i think the recommended mix ratio is way too rich, i was getting loads of oily goop out of the exhaust and difficult starting on the recommended ratio. with 100:1 ( 50ml per 5L ) mine starts fairly easy and runs good. they say there is a knack to the gas gas stating, personally i just ease the kick start over until its engaged at the top of the stroke, then give it a solid quick full stomp . just did a 6 hr long lap trial on the weekend , and it started first kick most of the time. my only issue is trying to get used to the sharp power delivery in the slop we ride here in Wales. good luck, i hear the '23 models are lovely to ride. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted September 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 Thanks for your advice. I appreciate any ideas at this point. I wish I knew that top secret knack to starting a Gas Gas trials bike 🙂 I know what you mean people talk about it all the time. I've seen lay it on it's side till gas comes out then start it. I've seen roll it around until top dead center which I have no clue how to do that. I understand what tdc is I used to rebuild engines for a local race team but the other one I've read is start it in 3rd gear with the clutch in? Never heard of that one either. I hope I can figure something out. I'm trying to find out if an S2 low compression head and insert would make it easier to start? I'm not floating in money but I be more than happy to fork another $200 out if that solves the problem. Thanks though my friend be safe and enjoy that bike you ride! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted September 18, 2023 Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 Bike is too new to have starting problems, I'd be making a trip back to the dealer to sort out the start issues while they still have some responsibility. The manual calls for 98 octane fuel, I'd be concerned running 90 octane with 67:1 oil mixed, your resulting octane rating will be even lower yet as the premix oil lowers the octane. Myself I mix race fuel with pump gas to achieve a fuel octane rating that is very close to the manuals recommendation. You aren't bring the engine up on TDC to start, you actually just want it to come up on compression. Laying the bike on the side has no logic on a carburetor equipped engine, all that will do is mess up the fuel level in the float bowl. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted September 18, 2023 Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 40 minutes ago, cadarnvice said: .... my only issue is trying to get used to the sharp power delivery... 3rd. gear is perfect for a 300 with high compression 👍 I use 3rd. so much I could remove the rest of the gears and never miss them. 3rd. takes me from zero to whatever I could possibly need and I'm so accustom to the way the throttle and clutch engages in 3rd. it actually messes me up to gear down. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpauls Posted September 18, 2023 Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 1 hour ago, cadarnvice said: personally, i would put a fresh plug in (i've been advised to run an iridium plug in my 280) , put fresh fuel in and give it go. i think the recommended mix ratio is way too rich, i was getting loads of oily goop out of the exhaust and difficult starting on the recommended ratio. with 100:1 ( 50ml per 5L ) mine starts fairly easy and runs good. they say there is a knack to the gas gas stating, personally i just ease the kick start over until its engaged at the top of the stroke, then give it a solid quick full stomp . just did a 6 hr long lap trial on the weekend , and it started first kick most of the time. my only issue is trying to get used to the sharp power delivery in the slop we ride here in Wales. good luck, i hear the '23 models are lovely to ride. "In the slop". There's pretty! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted September 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 The first hurdle to overcome is starting the little monster. When cold, the choke is required, followed by a good kick with some technique to get a nice full swing. Remember Top Dead Center? Remember having to roll the throttle on as you kick? With that smooth, controlled push on the kick-start lever, the bike will usually fire right up. Get ¾ of a kick, be too fast, be too slow, or do something funny with the throttle, then you’ll be kicking for a while. When it gets hot, the starting gets easier, though you still have to have the correct technique. Lack that skill and you’ll still be kicking. Starting is the biggest hurdle and our biggest complaint about this bike. However, by standards from not too long ago when e-start was a rarity, this would be totally normal. This was taken from a magazine test of a Gas Gas TXT 300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted September 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 I contacted the dealership. It's a large KTM Gas Gas Yamaha and Suzuki dealer but haven't heard back yet. It's absolutely brand new. I've never gotten to hear it run yet. Never started. I can tell it was started during dealer prep because the plug was a little black and it's been ridden a little because there's dirt up under the rear of the bike. Like a wet paved parking lot or something. The guy who delivered it didn't start it for me but he was huge! Like probably 6'3" and probably weighed 240 with size 15 feet lol. So maybe I'm just too little. Never had anything like this happen and I've had a bunch of bikes over almost 50 years of 2 strokes. Like I said I'm 145 pounds. I had a Montesa 250 I had no problem starting. I just don't understand this. I appreciate you guys talking with me about it, I really do because right now I have a brand new motorcycle in limbo. I enjoy hearing what you all tell me 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted September 18, 2023 Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 I have no experience with Gasgas but I've heard that starting them can be a bit tricky. To confirm whether the engine will actually start at all, try bump-starting it down a hill. Or get a couple of burly friends to push you if you live on the flat. I think your height and weight are working against you a bit. To me, the problem with all trials bikes is the kickstart is too high so you aren't using the most efficient part of your leg muscles. Try leaning against a wall and standing on the footrest to kick it over. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted September 18, 2023 Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 At 120something pounds the only way I could start my 300 when the electric starter went out was to lean it against a tree, it's hard on the grips but it's the only way. Fortunately it starts easy once I get on it with all my might and now the electric start is fixed again. Bikes that are hard to start when you are exhausted takes all the fun out of it. btw: If your Montesa 250 was a 4-stroke it had a decompressor built into the camshaft. Decompressor is easy to add if the cylinder head came with an extra plug hole, which your bike does not have. Cylinder heads are often available in either high or low compression versions with lower compression theoretically being easier to start as well as better suited to lower octane fuels. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted September 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 Thank you guys for your input. What about an S2 low compression cylinder head and insert? Do any of you guys have one of those or know someone who does? Lower compression should help me out some I would think, what's your opinion? And I am going to try leaning it on a garage wall or a tree like a few of you suggested. I remember doing that with my CR 250 2 stroke. I didn't actually have to with that bike but it made it so much easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted September 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 My montesa was an 02 two stroke by the way. 2002 250. Oh my gosh was that bike easy to start! I wish my new beast was the same way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted September 18, 2023 Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, Butch said: My montesa was an 02 two stroke by the way. 2002 250. Oh my gosh was that bike easy to start! I wish my new beast was the same way I had a 2001, model was 315R Cota, beautiful sturdy bike. They had nowhere near the compression of the current model 300's. 315 rear fender in black was the most break resistant ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted September 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 Yes they were awesome bikes. I live in Pennsylvania and had to drive to upstate NY 6 hours one way to pick the Cota up and I rode the heck out of it for some years. Never had an issue. I advertised it on motosoup which was a classified website for bikes at the time. 2 brothers from Gillette Wyoming bought it. I headed West, they headed East and we met in Walcott Iowa. Fun days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted September 18, 2023 Report Share Posted September 18, 2023 Pennsylvania is close, if you are looking for a place to ride and somebody to ride with in Central Frontenac Ontario I can hook you up. If you hurry I have a 2021 TRS 300 electric start for sale right now, you can start that for sure 😎 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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