Advice on the differing techniques when riding a 125 vs a larger CC

[FailMaster]

I’m really struggling with the sport and it’s taking me so long to get to grips with the basics it’s starting to get embarrassing.

One thing I am noticing as I ride with peeps on 250 and 300cc bikes is that I have to ride my bike differently - I’m just not entirely sure what to do!

What advice would you give someone riding a 125 that would differ (or even that’s the same!) as the larger CC.

For example: my friends 250cc will just track up a (not particularly steep) hill with a smidge of throttle, my 125 would need more oomph at the bottom or it would be touch and go if it made it up.

[lemur]

I jack up the idle slightly and ring the snot out of it in whatever gear it will still pull strong going up the big stuff but I only weigh 130 pounds so a 125 hauls me fairly easy ymmv.   If you have great throttle and clutch control a 300 is actually easier to ride for a senior citizen like me.   Best way to advance is to ride lots and to ride with better riders.

[feetupfun]

54 minutes ago, FailMaster said:

I’m really struggling with the sport and it’s taking me so long to get to grips with the basics it’s starting to get embarrassing.

One thing I am noticing as I ride with peeps on 250 and 300cc bikes is that I have to ride my bike differently - I’m just not entirely sure what to do!

What advice would you give someone riding a 125 that would differ (or even that’s the same!) as the larger CC.

For example: my friends 250cc will just track up a (not particularly steep) hill with a smidge of throttle, my 125 would need more oomph at the bottom or it would be touch and go if it made it up.

Judging how much oomph for obstacles is a skill that comes with practice, no matter if it's a 125 or a bigger engine. The concept of riding a 125 to start with is that the relative lack of power helps you to more quickly learn good riding technique.

As for jumping up things, it is safest to initially "over oomph" things then reduce the "over oomph" progressively until you oomph "just enough".

[jonnyc21]

I loved learning on a 125 at first, however I figured out very quick that I had to start with a lot more throttle and really learn the clutch before going up to a 250.  With the fact that your having to rev it a lot that is exactly what I had to do.  If you are feeling like more low end power would help and your trying to learn in part by doing what your buddies are doing then I would say it might be worth going up to a 250 however only you can really make that call.

Something that might be worth consideration would be on a smaller hill, log, rock, or other technical bit maybe one of your riding buddies would be willing to let you have a go on there 250 and you can see if it makes it easier for you.  If it helps a lot then maybe that would help you know if its worth changing bike size? 

Good luck what ever you decide to do. 

[trapezeartist]

On 9/24/2023 at 11:07 PM, lemur said:

 Best way to advance is to ride lots and to ride with better riders.

Ride lots, yes, but I'm not so sure about riding with better riders. In my view, the ideal is to ride with riders just a little bit better than you. That way you can all practice on the same sections and you can learn from them.

On 9/24/2023 at 11:25 PM, feetupfun said:

As for jumping up things, it is safest to initially "over oomph" things then reduce the "over oomph" progressively until you oomph "just enough".

Agreed. "Over oomph" might mean a dab to get back under control. "Under oomph" could be a 5 (and some bruises).

[lemur]

54 minutes ago, trapezeartist said:

Ride lots, yes, but I'm not so sure about riding with better riders. In my view, the ideal is to ride with riders just a little bit better than you. That way you can all practice on the same sections and you can learn from them.

I am very fortunate to have the opportunity to minder and catch for a lot of riders at all levels on a regular basis and that experience has helped my own riding.  Riding ice trails for most of the winter months on studded tires has also helped immensely, a dab on ice is equal to a crash so it's a strong incentive to keep your feet on the pegs.

[FailMaster]

I have definitely been under-oomphing quite regularly - and suffering the consequences! 

Nothing that actually involves needing to lift the front wheel but some hills and obstacles that involve the bike ‘climbing up’ (if you will).

I'm suspecting I’m not giving it enough throttle and then controlling the speed/power with the clutch.

I do get to ride a 250 on occasions and definitely find it easier on hills.  (Again only easy, beginner trial style hills really).  I think I may have a touch of RPM anxiety so that low end power really does help in that area.   
 

Thought to quote, maybe I just need to learn to wring the snot out of it. 
 

Do you then roll the throttle on more and hold the speed/power back on the clutch on the 125?  Obviously the 250 needs a little throttle and a little clutch to get up and over basic things, but should I Rev the 125 higher and then hold the power on the clutch to get that similar pull from it? (Say for trying to get up across and over a rideable rock slab).

I’m probably overthinking it all but following what my fellow riders are doing is not quite working.  Plus riding for most of them has become second nature so dissecting the basics seems alien to them. 

it’s lovely to have a group of folk to ride with but everyone is definitely a much higher level than me so they’re often jumping up stuff and attempting things that are waaaay above my level. 

[apriljo]

I’m finishing up my third year of riding and one of the things I’ve found is there’s no replacement for seat time. Riding with others helps a lot, countless hours of YouTube helps too even though there’s no real feedback or ways to ask questions. Ultimately it’s practice practice practice.

Like any sport you need to continue to practice the basics. Balance and body position is going to help with those hill climbs. Practice the things you find difficult too. For me right now that’s off camber downhill to uphill turns. For you it sounds like that’s hill climbs. Start small and work your way up. If you’re an average adult you might need to rev the snot out of that 125 and use your clutch to moderate your speed. 

It does sound like you might be under biked for your weight. I think most average weight adults probably start on a 200 or a 250. Any bike should be capable and get you learning and enjoying trials though. 

[Tr1AL]

@FailMasterThese are the sprockets  that work on a 125  9/43 , 9/44, 9/46 , 9/48   try them all if you can , they all feel very different.  9/48 is the most favoured because it allows you to use 3rd and 4th gear more but makes for a very short 1st gear. The technique to riding a 125 is to get the revs up very high when you need power to go up things and slip the clutch if the revs start to drop off too much. Big hill climbs on a 125cc goes like this , on the best bit of grippy ground you can start your attack from you turn the throttle wide open until the engine is screaming its head off then dump the clutch and go , but hold the throttle wide open do not back off and use body positioning and the clutch to keep control of the bike going upward ,  the incline of the hill will kill off the revs as you go up  and you will know when it is ok to roll off the throttle by the sound of the motor when you are approaching the top. Unless you buy one of the later after 2015/2016 125cc bikes you have very little chance of having any torque at the bottom of the rev range. You can help low down power on a 125 by reducing the diameter of the front pipe where it joins on the barrel/jugg using a sleeved part made from aluminium tubing to create back pressure. check out S3 parts made in Spain. Also you can fit a flat slide type carburettor Keihin PWK 28 or a Dellorto VHST as a performance enhancer on a 125. Make sure the jetting is correct and the carburettor is tuned correctly so that you get the best response from the motor , If you do not know how to do it then all you have to do is google it. 

Here is a video of some good riders using 125cc bikes I cannot get this to embed for some reason so you need to click on it to see it. https://youtu.be/z6_xvCfs_l4?feature=shared

Edited October 2, 2023 by Tr1AL
failed youtube link

[FailMaster]

Thank you to all who have commented and offered advice so far.  I’ve not been able to get out much recently so wanted to get back out before I made any more comments.

I’m coming back with a much more positive outlook than I had when I first posted asking for advice.

To answer with some of the spec:  my 125cc is a 2015, I’m running sprockets at 9/48 and I usually weight around 10.5 stone.

I have been kicking myself for ages thinking I’m just not improving but as it was pointed out to me, there’s definitely been a huge improvement in how tight a turn I can make and my balance is improving all the time because as much as I haven’t been able to follow the lead of the guys I ride with, I have been doing my own thing and I think that’s actually going to have helped hugely now I’m starting to put things together.

Thanks to everyone’s input I’ve been ignoring the sounds and techniques of everyone on their 250/300’s and playing around more with my own bike, using the techniques suggested I’ve managed a few longer hills that I wouldn’t have ever entertained when I first wrote this…..it’s still very basic and beginner but for the first time in ages I feel like I’ve actually made some real progress.

My learning style is definitely - ‘know the theory of what to do and then put it into practice’, rather than ‘just send it and hope for the best’ so having the knowledge of how to attack things specifically with my 125 has been absolutely amazing!

 I’ve been able to think about all the advice given and I feel like I’m going out there with a new found confidence.  
 

honestly, it’s made such a difference to me. I can’t wait to get out and ride again.  Thank you.

[Tr1AL]

@FailMasterI would recommend you try a 9/44 set up  as you are light in the weight department  you may find the taller gearing suits your riding style better , you wont recognise the bike its a different feeling altogether. If you wanted to try a 44t rear you will need 102 links in a chain , you should have 104 with a 48t . A cheap chain and rear sprocket can be had for £50 or buy used when possible just to test the set up and its considerably less' Whatever you decide to do enjoy your riding.

[bikepilot]

I find a 125 has plenty of power for anything I have the skill for (I ride intermediate class) but it's concentrated at the upper rpms.  Don't be afraid to rev the snot out of it.  You won't hurt the bike. Expect to be in lower gears vs the 250s and 300s.  I own and also race small bore two stroke MX bikes and got comfortable with ringing their necks at an early age!  

For sudden bursts of power it's more about stored energy in the flywheel than instant torque when snapping the throttle open.  Again rev higher as that will store more energy.  

As for the bike don't overlook jetting.  125s like big jets.  Keep going richer till performance tapers off.   You may find that it'll prefer a few sizes up, particularly on the pilot.  Also make sure the engine compression is appropriate and that the reeds are in good shape.