old trials fanatic Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 (edited) Probably not the right forum for this but i like the clientelle here I was observing on Sunday at a Pre 65 classic trial as the bike isnt finished yet got nothing to ride so thought i would help out by observing. You know Classic Trials the ones with the relatively easy sections. I was amazed, probably shouldnt be, by the number of riders who seemed to think it ok to blatantly kick, uproot and generally remove rocks from the section. When i jokingly asked one of them "Do you work for Tarmac Roadstone" as i admired his roadbuilding technique all i got was "no but that rocks loose". Ya dont say!! I pointed out that if him and his mate teamed together they could probably inadvertantly "trip" over the rock step that was causing such concern and "being loose" that might just roll out the section also. Now am i being naieve here. Always remember Dave Thorpe being one of the worst for this back in the dark ages when i used to ride. He could have turned a rocky stream bed into a patio with water feature with one kick of his boot. But i didnt expect it to be so blatant still. So what is acceptable obsticle removing technique and what isnt. To me i've always thought it cheating. I know cheating doesnt matter in the modern world in which we live but the sections were pretty easy anyway, not that that should make any difference in principle. Just wondered what the concensus was. Edited March 6, 2006 by Old trials fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdc Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 I can't understand why they do it, they don't just make the sections easier for themselves, they make them easier for everyone else as well! It is cheating, I warn them they will be fived and then, if possible, kick the rocks back in (preferably when they go back to their bikes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 One warning then dock them an extra 5 simple really, for the big boys that can mean winning or losing the trial. Observers have a big role to play in ensuring fairness, they can't jump on one guy and turn a blind eye to others. That happenned in last years P65 Scottish, observer jumped hard on Mick Grant at one group for moving a rock, not even out of line, but let certain others named in this thread away with what he wanted. Who will take the title of " No Stone Unturned" for his momoirs first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numbnuts Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 You also tend to find that the "top lads" are the worst and most blatant about it! Certain observers will warn them, but a lot seem to be almost in awe of them and let it pass. I am sure, if we are honest, most have us have given the odd rock a bit of a kick "to see if its loose" and its moved out the way, however, some of them will stand there for a minute or two arranging the rock just how they want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minislim Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 having observerd at both the scottish pre65 and world rounds i can say it goes on with the big guns alot. the funniest example which i can only just remember because i was "young" then was the Tarres entourage. they actually carried little rocks in the bum bags and rucksacks to stabilise sections and create kickers. they seemed to get away with it. as for the pre65 side all of the mentioned names plus many more are guilty. makes me laugh though when i see the scores and all that work actually didnt help them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Everyone has a different take on this; I am quite happy for any rider to 'scuff' the line a little whilst walking the section, especially when there are so many loose leaves around which could hide a hazard but no blatant moving of obstacles. We all spot a loose twig or branch lying in the section which could pick up and go through a wheel, but would not allow a log to be rolled out of the section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsy Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 No, my position is that no blatant rock moving allowed, could you imagine what would happen if Raga's minders started moving stuff about in a world round? There would be a riot. And Martin would then be honour bound to plant one on Casas. It would make a damn good bit of video footage though!! Raga, Lampkin & Co are the worst offenders!!! But they have a minder or two to do it for them I don't think it makes much difference to the end result, for me personally, if I move a small rock it is probably more pchycological(dont know if thats spelt right)than anything else, & probably would'nt make any difference to my ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_290 Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 If I move a rock to the side, chances are I'll hit it anyway, I've got no bearing on my line in sections Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 I have seen it and will allow leaves and "swept" rocks but not big un's. It's amazing how what starts as a hazard gets chopped away by early riders tho. P.S. North Yorkshire Lad won the "Brenda Jones Sheild" last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinnshock Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 I live in East Anglia. What's a rock ? Twinnshock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essex rider Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 There was a few rocks at beazley end the other day, Dont know what your worrying about, we may not be able to ride rocks but these northern boys aint to good down here either (no offence ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordson major Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 I think it's allright to clear a rut out with your boot but when you start kicking rocks out the way I don't think that's fair. Mind though, at a C/D national last year a log section had a much needed kicker that the lads wouldn't have got up the log without.One lad knocked it when he crashed on it moving it out of the way of the log. My Dad went to move it back and was given a stern few words by the observer (we had no rider interest). Thing is as the day goes on sections do get chewed up and lose there grip but if half the riders are riding the section with the kicker and the other half aren't they're at a great disadvantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 dave thorpe has changed talents, he can do a 10minute queue in 3 minutes no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtrider Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 I was observing on Sunday at a Pre 65 classic trial as the bike isnt finished yet got nothing to ride so thought i would help out by observing. Let me guess. Bonsall quarry section 9. No not guilty, but there were a couple of awkwardly 'placed' rocks and only one line to take. Think I had one dab on that section, and after that tried to remember where the rocks were. I find the lack of memory one of the biggest hazards these days.What was I saying? I agree with some of the other views already expressed. It tends to be the 'top' riders who are so keen to win that are the worst culprits. I think its a bit pathetic really. Lets face it, in pre 65 we are just a bunch of middle aged guys on old bikes out for a bit of fun by and large. We are not exactly aspiring world champs are we? Anyway thanks for observing and I look forward to seeing your bike when its done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essex rider Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 At some trials i often see the experts adding in a kicker and others taking it out. the worst ive seen was a marker being moved so there was a wider gap with a less steep slope on one side, cheeky mongrels. Anyway are you allowed to snap hanging branches away so you dont get yer face all scuffed up???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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