Why I'm considering not going to Trials Comps.

[feetupfun]

1 hour ago, bikerpet said:

My take-away from this is a couple of things:

• All these videos of Trial GP and the elite riders may well be scaring off a whole lot of people, just as the contemporary video I watched in the 80's did me. At the very least they may well be creating people like me who want to do all the cool tricks, even though we have absolutely zero practical use of them. Not productive for developing low-intermediate competition riders!

We have run lots of public trials riding displays and static displays at rural shows and swap meets with videos running and this thing about the videos is one of the things we have got down to a fine art. We only ever show videos made at our own trials events. This way people not familiar with trials have a look and think to themselves "wow they are a gumby lot. I could do better than that!" Of course when they do turn up for a ride we make sure we have suitable sections for them to ride as they discover that it actually a fair bit harder to do than how it looks on a video.

The big growth in rider numbers for us in the past couple of years has been people wanting to improve their skills in Hard Enduro, which seems to be popular everywhere. It's well known within the Hard Enduro scene that the riders who are at the pointy end of the field are mostly ex or current trials riders. We don't need to do any advertising to get these new people coming along to trials and having a ball.

Another story about people doing cross-training on trials bikes is about a middle-aged rider who had obviously done thousands of hours riding dirt bikes and had some amazing bike skills. However it was very entertaining when he had a go at riding trials sections on a borrowed bike and could not, no matter how hard he tried, stay within the boundary tapes.

Just thought of another story. This time about arbitrary rules in trials. One local rider convinced his Dad to have a go with him at trials and bought his Dad a trials bike. No matter what we said about the rules, the Dad would not, ever, inspect any sections from outside the section or by walking them. His idea of the right level of challenge was to ride through each section navigating only using the coloured arrows as he could see them while riding along through the section!

[lemur]

Video does indeed make everything look flat and easy and from what I've seen hard enduro riders just starting to ride trials bikes are not afraid to try hard stuff, fact is they show nearly zero interest in doing easy stuff.  Put a Jake Stapleton on either a trials bike or an enduro bike and he will point it up or down anything imaginable and make riding it for several hours look easy 😎 you don't tone your terrain down for riders like that you set out a pro line and watch the magic happen.  Some advanced enduro riders are riding trials bikes competitively at the intermediate level within the first year on a trials bike. Ridership numbers representing all class of riders here is Way up in the last 3 years, including frequent practice day sessions, event support rides and in actual competitions.  Given a venue the sport has seen a huge growth in talent compared to previous decades, that's the reality here.

[lemur]

Had a phenomenal new Trials rider here today, first day out riding serious terrain and he's already acing expert level stuff with very little coaching.  He was our third place champion at this years GnArden hard enduro and has only ridden big bikes previously, one day out and he's definitely addicted to trials riding and the concept of riding sections now  😎

[Dropsix]

On 10/27/2023 at 4:50 PM, apriljo said:

We’ve had our property open for trials riders for a couple years now, all we’ve asked is for an introductory ride so we can get to know you and a signed waiver. I can count on one hand the amount of return visitors we have outside of events and there’s only 2 regulars. We are an hour plus away from most of the “local” riders. I think the reality is that you need the competition events to get riders to make time in their busy schedules to come together and ride.

We held our first competition this year in early September. We were lucky enough to have some experienced people come and help us with the section setting. I learned that it takes WAY more effort than you’d imagine to run an event like this. I also learned that everyone has different opinions about how difficult the lines should be, and they often contradict themselves! Ultimately as a section setter I hope to find the balance that makes it challenging but not too difficult. We can’t please everyone as section setters, and I think that will be a consistent problem with other styles of events. 

April! It's Eric, I am one of the ones who came out once for an intro ride and hasn't been back......YET!

I wound up buying a new enduro bike shortly after and was in a honeymoon phase with it. I DO however plan on returning a bunch! I had a great time and your property is awesome. I am also possibly bringing two more riders with me.

[Cota300rr]

Just want to add my $0.02 as a fairly new to trials rider, so I can provide that perspective as someone who hasn't been involved for years as many others have.

My first introduction to motorcycles in general was about 12 years ago when I met my husband. We went to the local motorcycle show one year and saw a bloke named Jordan Szoke doing a trials demo, and I have to say that someone in this thread who said seeing that crazy stuff on a trials bike really does wonders for driving one away from wanting to do it has a good point! You kind of figure well I don't think I'd ever want to climb up an eight foot wall and jump over a car because that obviously demands years of dedication and practice and seems a bit dangerous. If that's all you've ever been exposed to regarding trials, it misses the fun that can be had at the beginner and lower levels.

Another comment here was regarding the enduro riders getting into trials to improve their skills, I have to hard agree with that, because that's eventually what ended up happening with my husband and myself. We wanted to get better on our big bikes and knew loads of the top riders were coming from a trials background. Having a trials bike has been PHENOMENAL for improving those skills. I now preach the gospel of trials to everyone and anyone because the improvements to be had are massive. Also, quick! My improvement hadn't really leapt forward much in the ten years I had on the enduro bikes, until I got on a trials bike of my own... the immediate and jaw dropping results in my balance and technique on the big bikes has blown me away. Especially as a female rider with shorter legs and struggling a bit with the weight of a big bike, everything I want to learn to do on that I now learn it on the trials bike first, and the skill transfers over perfectly.

Now when it comes to clubs and competitions, that wasn't something we were really interested in but decided to give it a try. I have to say that my first trial as a junior rider was really difficult for me. 10 sections/3 loops was far too long and I felt the junior line was too difficult for me, I ended up dropping out halfway due to being tired and fearful. Luckily our local club started to put on a women's trial which cut the length to 5 sections/3 loops, and the junior lines were much easier for newbies. I have now advanced enough to move up to intermediate, but that gave me a lot more confidence and made it worth my time/money. I don't know that a "proper" 10 section trial is for me because I just don't have that kind of stamina, I don't usually ride for hours and hours and those trials seem to take the entire day to complete. I'm not sure if that's a barrier for many people, but for those just getting into the sport I can see that it would be, especially if the lowest class has big logs and rock climbs and such like ours did.  

I also tend to want to just compete against myself, not others, but the trial still offers the ability to do so. I enjoy the challenge of trying the sections out without knowing how it's going to go, getting 3 tries at it and attempting to improve each time, and using all the skills in my toolbox to attempt to do so. It's a bit like going down a trail in the woods you've never done, you don't know what's around the next corner, so you use your skills to get through. 

That being said, our local club trials are about 1.5 hours away and that honestly is the biggest drawback. It's a long day of getting there for the early start, riding all day, driving home, washing bikes etc. and often they're on Sunday so gotta work the next day. Tough to make it work for everyone though. I appreciate all the work the clubs and volunteers do, I can only imagine it's tons of work! Cheers to all. 

[bikerpet]

1 hour ago, Cota300rr said:

Just want to add my $0.02 as a fairly new to trials rider, so I can provide that perspective as someone who hasn't been involved for years as many others have.

I guess trials displays have somewhat conflicted purposes sometimes.
The client most likely just wants something that draws a crowd and keeps people entertained.
The operator primarily wants the money so they have to cater to the wants of the client.
But then there's the third prong which is appealing to new riders, and it's that one that must come a far distant third place in most cases.
I guess the way around that is for non-commercial organisations like clubs to provide the display services, which I've no doubt does happen a fair bit. But it would be tough for a club to put together the truck, ramps, props, PA, insurance, etc. and then maintain a pool of riders to staff it. It starts looking suspiciously like a commercial enterprise again, with all the commercial drivers coming to the fore.
Maybe clubs could partner with a commercial display - the pro does the shiny new tricks and the polished display, then the club demo real world trials skills at the mere mortal level - accurate turns, tricky little angled approach obstacles ....

Interesting that your club Junior line was too hard. That certainly seems a bit of a shortcoming on their behalf. At our events the introductory level line is always pretty much ride in through the start gate and find your way to the finish gate. Often there's another gate or two, but they're usually set just to force people to spend a bit more time in section than the straightest line between A & B, and make at least a couple of turns of some sort.
Although 3 or 4 laps x 10 sections does take a while, and it's certainly a good day out on the bike, there's often not really that much riding time in between all the walking, talking and waiting.
Another way of looking at 30 or 40 section events is just to ride the sections that look most fun to you. Treat it more like a Menu rather than like a Prescription - "Oh, I like the look of that one, let's give it a go. Nah, that doesn't look tasty to me, I'll leave it for others."

I'm completely with you on the travel aspect - most events are 3-4 hours from me, even more disincentive to go.
I went to a training day with Billy Green on the weekend, 4 hour drive, leave after a friends' 50th birthday, camp at midnight, up at 6:30am to drive the rest of the way, ride until mid afternoon then drive 4 hours and home by late-ish dinner. Next day I was knackered, but luckily no need to go to work.

[b40rt]

On 11/4/2023 at 9:53 PM, lemur said:

Had a phenomenal new Trials rider here today, first day out riding serious terrain and he's already acing expert level stuff with very little coaching.   😎

Interesting, I have been riding trials for several decades, and have never seen anyone ace trials on their first attempt. I have seen riders with obvious ability , and those with cycle trials experience improve very quickly, but even so it generally takes years, not hours.  Any videos of the rider you mention ?

[lemur]

5 hours ago, b40rt said:

Interesting, I have been riding trials for several decades, and have never seen anyone ace trials on their first attempt. I have seen riders with obvious ability , and those with cycle trials experience improve very quickly, but even so it generally takes years, not hours.  Any videos of the rider you mention ?

I'm sure there will be by this time next year, the name of the rider that I was extremely impressed with is Justin Brazeau, an accomplished Pro class MX and Hard Enduro rider.

[Cota300rr]

17 hours ago, bikerpet said:

I guess trials displays have somewhat conflicted purposes sometimes.
The client most likely just wants something that draws a crowd and keeps people entertained.
The operator primarily wants the money so they have to cater to the wants of the client.
But then there's the third prong which is appealing to new riders, and it's that one that must come a far distant third place in most cases.
 

You've got that right. Always about the money in the end, unfortunately. Perhaps a consideration for clubs would be to set up demos at fairs and such and bring in any local dealers that would like to market their bikes, allow people to try one out or something. I guess that's liability too.. our world makes things so tough sometimes with all the rules we have haha. 

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Interesting that your club Junior line was too hard. That certainly seems a bit of a shortcoming on their behalf. At our events the introductory level line is always pretty much ride in through the start gate and find your way to the finish gate. Often there's another gate or two, but they're usually set just to force people to spend a bit more time in section than the straightest line between A & B, and make at least a couple of turns of some sort.

Yes, the women's trials they put on were much like you describe. This is more like what I was expecting. The junior lines at the first trial were more like intermediate and up, now that I have a better understanding of the sport. I have been told that that particular trial I went to for the first time is also known for being difficult, but how am I supposed to know that as a beginner..? I also picked it because it was much closer to me, put on about 45 minutes closer drive so that appealed as well. 

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Although 3 or 4 laps x 10 sections does take a while, and it's certainly a good day out on the bike, there's often not really that much riding time in between all the walking, talking and waiting.
Another way of looking at 30 or 40 section events is just to ride the sections that look most fun to you. Treat it more like a Menu rather than like a Prescription - "Oh, I like the look of that one, let's give it a go. Nah, that doesn't look tasty to me, I'll leave it for others."

For us that time it was a group of 4 juniors so there was little time between rides, and lots of trail to get to each section, so pretty much riding the whole time. The trail was not easy either. It was just all too much for me. I'm glad they did the women's trials otherwise I may not have ever gone back. I haven't gone back to that particular trial again, maybe one day! I love the idea of skipping what you don't want to do as well, but as mentioned with all the trail riding in between sections that's also what got me. I found myself too tired to ride to the next area so I had to call it quits. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Cota300rr