Ethanol free petrol or lowest ethanol content petrol

[ChrisCH]

I wonder if the broader composition of petrol has changed in the US in recent years?  It is easy to just look at the ethanol, but rather unscientific.  Ethanol absorbs water and that can be an issue but a lot of the other problems don't ring true.  My petrol lawnmower starts first or second attempt in spring with the same fuel it has had in all winter.  It is in a shed that is damp and I don't really look after it much.  Petrol will form a gel after a while, I had a VFR that needed the carbs stripped, but that was pre ethanol and it had been stood a long time.  The volatile parts evaporate.

Aspen is designed to stand for a long time and is ethanol free and sold for the small engine market - mowers and the like.  It is hard to get the high octane rated Aspen if you wanted to run a trials bike on it though.  (My mower gets the bike petrol - Shell V Power)

[lemur]

Lawn mowers and chainsaws have carburetors with a diaphragm fuel pump instead of a float bowl, needle and float. In the case of a chainsaw that is so it can operate on its side or upside down.  The carburetor on a lawn mower might have a float but holds less fuel in the float bowl where it can evaporate and distill into solids.  If your carb float bowl is full of green stuff, that is the copper parts in your carburetor oxidizing, if it is full of white powder that is the aluminum parts oxidizing and if it is full of black stuff that is what is left of the rubber o- rings.

[Glayne]

I had never had a fuel petcock issue, up to this year had never even removed one from a fuel tank. This year I have had a leak on the petcock of a 2001 KX65, a petcock leak on a 2004 WR450, a petcock leak on a 2005 DRZ125 a petcock leak on a 1996 Big Bear 350, and the float bowl is now leaking overflow on the Big Bear as well, something to do with the float seat, will see this weekend. I use marked fuel so it is easy to see where the fuel is leaking from. 

Something is going on with the fuel around here. I am no chemist but I suspect something is eating the rubber and if it is not the ethanol it must be some additive that goes along with it. 

And yes I am considering changing to a much less convenient and more expensive fuel.

[lemur]

2 hours ago, Glayne said:

… Something is going on with the fuel around here. I am no chemist but I suspect something is eating the rubber and if it is not the ethanol it must be some additive that goes along with it. …

Remember that any fuel you run in your internal combustion engine is a very strong solvent.

Race fuel is very close to being paint thinner.

Edited November 24, 2023 by lemur

[ChrisCH]

17 hours ago, Glayne said:

I....petcock leak on a 2004 WR450,.....

Something is going on with the fuel around here. I am no chemist but I suspect something is eating the rubber and if it is not the ethanol it must be some additive that goes along with it. 

And yes I am considering changing to a much less convenient and more expensive fuel.

Where are you based?  The E10 motorcycle lists I can find suggest the WR is OK.  I suspect that there is another component in the mix.  The oil industry is not exactly honest.

https://speedo-angels.com/e10-motorcycle-compatibility/

Yamaha
All Yamaha models from Model Year 1990 are compatible with E10.

[Glayne]

I'm located in British Columbia Canada. Ethanol just became mandatory here over the last year? 

I have been using marked fuel for years, it used to be non ethanol and also labeled marine fuel because of the lack of ethanol and road tax. (short version) I wonder if there is something in the marked fuel now to keep the ethanol okay for marine that is messing with my stuff.

[pschrauber]

My biggest concern is storability, I do have times when I do not ride the bikes but gasoline mixed with oil left. E10 oil mix got kind of stained especially when stored in winter time, thus I too only use ARAL Ultimate 102 octane ethanol free. The BP Ultimate should be of the same recipy, ARAL and BP are using ether instead of ethanol in their fuel, that is too the reason that fuel does clean up the engine a bit inside.

[ChrisCH]

There are clearly lots of different forumulations so it is hard to pick on one part of petrol.  My understanding of ethanol is that it absorbs water so the octane rating decreases as the engine will not burn the water.  In the UK the 97 and 99 octane fuels are E5.  Virtually all two stroke bikes need at least 98 so they are on E5.  My road bikes run on E10 and sit in winter and are zero problem at all.  My lawn mower sits in a damp shed all winter and is faultless and will start first or second pull in spring (it has E5 in it as that is in t he can I use for the trials bike).

I think a lot of the (ethanol) problem exists only on the internet and very little in real life.

[pschrauber]

Ethanol is not stable and wil oxidate with oxygen to acetic acid (Essigsäure).

Acetic acid is corrosive against most metals like iron (steel), aluminium and even brass. When you ride the fuel inside the tank is pushed around inside the tank and thus gets contaminated with oxygen which comes through the vent hole.

Looks like that:

 

 

[ChrisCH]

10 hours ago, pschrauber said:

Ethanol is not stable and wil oxidate with oxygen to acetic acid (Essigsäure).

It is generally agreed that oxidisation is a minimum of a three to six month process.  Ethanol free petrol has a storage life of perhaps a year.  If you intend to leave any engine for any length of time it is a good idea to drain off the fuel.  My old VFR gelled up many years ago (long before ethanol) when I left it standing for about 10 months.

This is why youcan buy Aspen fuel for hand tools with seasonal use at most garden/timber outlets.

It is a very good idea to run any engine at least once a month.  I run both the road bikes every 3-4 weeks enough to get the engine hot and the thermostats open.  I have understood the need to do this for at least the last 40 years.  Modern petrol - with or without ethanol - seems to last a shorter period of time than when I first bought a motorbike.

[eagle8]

I'm glad we only have E10 down here & not every brand of servo carries it, the big companies like Shell & Mobil don't sell E10

[ChrisCH]

So very much depends on where you are in the world.  Brazil went to E10 in 1977.  They have a large number of vehicles that run on 100% Ethanol.  Clearly a lot of the problems reported in other countries are exagerated or made up.  Brazil is a very interesting case study.  The Wiki entry is a bit of a long read, but worth a look for anyone interested in the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

One really good thing from this example is that it is possible to run a petrol ICE without the need to extract crude oil.  So, when the world finally gets round to banning mineral based petrol we will still have a liquid hydrocarbon to run our old bikes on.