EM FACTOR-e la révolution trial électrique

[BC_Islander]

On 1/14/2024 at 4:35 AM, konrad said:

I've started a page to keep track of information about this exciting new motorcycle: https://www.electricmotiontech.com/home/em-factor-e

I just got my Sport and now this... (not buying lottery tickets!)

[bikerpet]

It seems a bit like the death, oops I meant to say evolution, of trials is remaining on the same track as it's been the past 40 years.

Machinery getting more and more single purpose specific along with ever relatively higher prices.

In what was probably trial's heyday in the '70's trials bikes were relatively cheap (relative to other motorcycles that is) and had seats of sorts.

My TY was pretty typical of many, serving dual purpose for trials & farm work. It was the ideal bike for moving stock or inspecting fences etc. Several of my farmer friends had trials bikes for the same reasons. Even my mum used to use it to go around the paddocks.

I can't see too many people shelling out AU$20,000 for a farm bike, or on a bit of a whim!

While I'm 100% in the "let's go electric, the sooner the better" I get concerned by big step price increases in bikes. Sure, bleeding edge tech always commands a premium until more competition arrives in the market, but it seems pretty rare that the prices fall all the way back to where they were (allowing for inflation).

My guess is the price will fall back to something maybe half way between $20k & current ICE prices. That's about double the cost of an equivalent trail bike. The only people who'll be paying that premium are the converted. Trials will need a lot of missionaries.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to go back to my TY. I recognise that specialisation is inherent in our sport and it's machinery, & that comes with a cost. But that cost also has a cost in uptake & participation that can drive a savage spiral that we've been seeing for years. Smaller market, higher prices, smaller market ... Potentially electric could compound this because they may not wear out as fast, or the purchase price is high enough to justify rebuilds that weren't really worthwhile on less costly bikes. And then there's battery life to factor (e) in. So what happens to the budget used bike market?

The Factor-e is the first (available) e-trials I've thought was getting close enough to ICE performance to be really interesting. But I totally lose interest when I look at the price.

I just bought an elderly but 100% airworthy fiberglass glider complete with trailer, oxygen & current top line electronic instruments for less money than a Factor-e! That's crazy.

[ChrisCH]

I'm not sure that trials bikes are expensive.  Ten thousand UK£ is a lot if you are rubbish like me, but you can still get a secondhand bike for less than a pushbike.  Once you have bought the bike they don't cost much to operate.  If you are not buying a new bike the depreciation isn't that much either.

I have a trials and a trail bike (CRF 250) and I am seriously thinking of selling the trail bike as I can't find anywhere to ride it that interests me.  'Off road' in the UK is becoming very difficult and trials is a cheap and fun way to scratch the itch.  For many people I feel you are better off with a mountainbike.  (I love my MTB)  More places to ride and much less hassle.  A good MTB is about the same money as the EM Factor-e.

What is happening here and throughout the world is that well off people are getting richer and ordinary people are getting poorer.  But that discussion is best left for a more appropriate place than this thread.

[konrad]

On 1/12/2024 at 1:50 PM, Tr1AL said:

https://youtu.be/Kjbx2UQNTCc?

I just discovered that YouTube will auto-translate closed-caption transcription into the language of your choice by clicking on the gear icon in the toolbar.

So what did I learn from reading the captions...?  For one thing, the FACTOR-e project had been in development for over 3 year at the time this video was made.  

But more importantly, I learned that Marc Colomer had to be disingenuous in interviews regarding the ePure saying, "...there is no need to change gears...."  Read it for yourself, starting at about 3:12.

Edited October 9 by konrad

[trapezeartist]

It seems to me that the Factor-e may be a step too far. Despite watching and reading all the blurb, I really can't see that the gearbox is an advantage for most people. It might be an advantage on the SSDT just to give you a higher cruising speed on the road, but that's about it. In any other situation it just seems to be a move in the opposite direction to every other electric vehicle on the planet. I was speaking to the Inch Perfect van driver the other day who seemed to be a faithful employee but not a salesman. He has ridden the Factor-e enough to know, but would spend his own money on a 2025 ePure Race.

[bikerpet]

My experience with electric trials and gearbox or no box is that the box has hands down advantages, but the bike has to be properly configured to make use of the gears. To me it's a no-brainer that trials benefits considerably from gears.

If you're comparing trials bikes to: road cars, road bikes, dirt bikes, scooters, aircraft, boats or just about any other machine I'd suggest it's a flawed comparison.

Find me any of the above that can provide all of the desirable characteristics of a trials bike & I'll consider accepting that how they implement electric drive is applicable to trials.

I wonder if the van driver was taking price into account, in which case most of us would agree, the Factor-e is just stretching the budget too far for the benefits. But that's not to say that it isn't hands down the better bike.

[ChrisCH]

6 hours ago, bikerpet said:

...

I wonder if the van driver was taking price into account, in which case most of us would agree, the Factor-e is just stretching the budget too far for the benefits. But that's not to say that it isn't hands down the better bike.

The 2025 epure race is not much cheaper - a few hundred.  From what I have read the gearing is the same as the third gear on the Factor-e.  The gearbox therefore allows lower forward speed for the same revs.  Whether that is any big advantage is hard to say as it is a new motor and I have not ridden it.  The old epure in my view is fine at low revs.

I think I also read that the gearbox can be programmed to have different mapping and TKO on/off as default in each gear.  Ergo, if you change gear you change the bike and can do that specific to the section or even within a single section.

I really don't know.  But as I am test riding it this Saturday I soon will know - I hope.  I will share my findings with everyone.  Sadly whatever the outcome the wife already wants one........

Edited Tuesday at 07:41 AM by ChrisCH

[bikerpet]

Well I'll be very interested to hear your report after test riding. The proof is in the pudding.

My take on gears is that the biggest difference is largely around clutch-dump type moves - punch, splat etc. In those situations it makes a really big difference being able to control the maximum bike speed (and the acceleration to a different degree) somewhat independently of the motor rpm (& hence energy).
Even at a fairly basic rider level this is very noticeable. But really only once you are riding on clutch not throttle.
If you're just riding on throttle it makes far less difference.

The motor RPM plays into this significantly. The older EM's have relatively low revving motors which are probably great for riding on throttle alone, but the F-e has a much higher RPM motor that should play to the strengths of riding on clutch much, much better. Which is what you see pretty clearly when it's ridden by some of those gun riders. Chalk & cheese between it and the older bikes.

My acid test for how well the clutch/motor/flywheel integrate is a front-on stationary punch (zap). It takes plenty of flywheel inertia, a good clutch and appropriate gearing to get that energy to the ground from stationary.