hrc450 Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 Hi,i have just got a old Fantic 249r 1994 ,forward kick start ,but the bike came with no clutch lever or cable ,please can anyone tell me if it is a hydraulic or cable,also to fit either of these do i have to remove the flywheel,and does anyone know were i can get a workshop manual ,Thank you .Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1AL Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, hrc450 said: Hi,i have just got a old Fantic 249r 1994 ,forward kick start ,but the bike came with no clutch lever or cable ,please can anyone tell me if it is a hydraulic or cable,also to fit either of these do i have to remove the flywheel,and does anyone know were i can get a workshop manual ,Thank you .Terry. The clutch should be hydraulic DOT4 you will not find a workshop manual and owners manuals were very basic These bikes are in the 'Rare and rocking horse' category if you want to go on a very long and probably quite expensive journey then I wish you good luck. Do not expect it to be worth much more than you paid for it after you spent all that time and money fixing it up. My advice would be if you want to research an old bike and spend hours on the internet searching for the parts and information then you just bought the perfect thing , If you want to ride Trials then break it as spares and buy a second hand 2010 on BETA or GASGAS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrc450 Posted February 3 Author Report Share Posted February 3 Thank you for your reply,but i do like a challenge and like to see the end result hopefully ,All the best T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1AL Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 (edited) 7 hours ago, hrc450 said: Thank you for your reply,but i do like a challenge and like to see the end result hopefully ,All the best T. OK if you insist here is a start to your journey https://www.retrotrials.com/fantic-305--245-and-125-maintenance-manual.html The 305 = 249cc 245 = 212 cc 125=124cc FANTIC model bikes are the AIR COOLED forerunner to your water-cooled 249R so can be used in place of the actual 249R manual unless of course you can find one?. This site has other snippets on the 249R and FANTIC history if you fish around its pages This site is an amazing resource for your type of bike. Bill Pye of Frankfield Garage was the man who had all the knowledge on FANTIC Trial bikes but I think he has retired now , you will have to do a search for Fantic related info . Good luck and i hope you enjoy your first ride on the finished bike. Edited February 3 by Tr1AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrc450 Posted February 3 Author Report Share Posted February 3 Thank you Tr1AL for the speedy reply ,i will keep the site informed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 The clutch was mineral oil. Dot 4 will kill that inner seal which requires the center cases to be split. That is probably why you are missing parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1AL Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 (edited) 6 hours ago, lineaway said: The clutch was mineral oil. Dot 4 will kill that inner seal which requires the center cases to be split. That is probably why you are missing parts. Mineral oil in a AJP clutch in 1994/1995 , really! who used mineral oil in a clutch in 1994/95 have you got any actual information you can provide to back that up , I would like to see it. I will be glad to apologise for misleading the OP when you provide the 249r manual or a site page showing that AJP clutch master cylinders and slaves were using mineral fluid in 1994/95.. Edited February 4 by Tr1AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1AL Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 (edited) https://www.trialsuk.co.uk/AJP-Clutch-Master-Cylinder-Seal-Kit-1994---1999 FANTIC 249R or FANTIC SECTION not shown probably because those bikes were rare and rocking horse even back then. Edited February 4 by Tr1AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1AL Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 (edited) https://ajpamerica.com/rebuild-kits-and-parts.html PART NUMBER R346010 CAP type will be the old style long thin rectangular clutch master cylinder from that period , I cannot find a mineral oil repair kit for that as a clutch master cylinder anywhere. Edited February 4 by Tr1AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrc450 Posted February 4 Author Report Share Posted February 4 Hi ,Thank you iv, taking all this on board and all ready hunting down the bits i need and you are so right Rare as rare can be,found this place..Thank you all for your time and Knowledge it all helps we will get there . In Motion Twinshock Trials Parts 213 Pooley Green Road, Egham, Surrey, TW20 8AS Tel: 01784 440033 Fax: 01784 440048 Email: info@inmotiontrials.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1AL Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 5 hours ago, hrc450 said: Hi ,Thank you iv, taking all this on board and all ready hunting down the bits i need and you are so right Rare as rare can be,found this place..Thank you all for your time and Knowledge it all helps we will get there . In Motion Twinshock Trials Parts 213 Pooley Green Road, Egham, Surrey, TW20 8AS Tel: 01784 440033 Fax: 01784 440048 Email: info@inmotiontrials.com At least you can get a new kick start and spring so that is a start. Your bike evolved to the next version which was called the FANTIC SECTION most parts for that will probably be more or less the same ? moto matrix has a VERTEX piston for a SECTION that should fit your bike and BRIXIA MOTO in ITALY have a brand new MIDBOX exhaust to fit a SECTION and a Complete engine gasket kit to fit a SECTION / K ROO these are all on ebay.co.uk searched under FANTIC SECTION Trials and Motocross bike parts. As you can see I have not a lot to do at present , I would be looking to search in ITALY , you will probably have more luck. You could try an E MAIL to Donato Miglio at BETA in Italy he was a works rider for FANTIC in the Late 80's he may have a contact for you in Italy , who knows If any one does it will be people like him. BRIXIA MOTO may have what you need. Try DHERBEY MOTO IN FRANCE they have a lot of stuff on the shelf and are a Trials specialist in most manufacturers and have been going for a long time.Have a good evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konrad Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 I've been working under the assumption that if the clutch slave cylinder is located inside the engine, the system will use mineral oil to mitigate cross-contamination of the seals. If the clutch slave cylinder is located outside the engine, DOT4 will be used to minimize the number of different fluids required for maintenance. Is this a bike that goes counter to my assumption? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1AL Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, konrad said: I've been working under the assumption that if the clutch slave cylinder is located inside the engine, the system will use mineral oil to mitigate cross-contamination of the seals. If the clutch slave cylinder is located outside the engine, DOT4 will be used to minimize the number of different fluids required for maintenance. Is this a bike that goes counter to my assumption? Hi konrad , GasGas was the first trials bike manufacturer to develope and fit a Hydraulic clutch to a trials bike in around 1992/93 they were based on a braking system and therefore used DOT4 and were produced for GasGas by AJP . the FANTIC 249R had a AJP Clutch master cylinder fitted in 1995 long since unavailable. GasGas only started using MINERAL OIL in their clutches in around 2004/5 because the PRO MODEL ENGINE in production starting 2002 had problems with leaking DOT4 into the gear box . MINERAL OIL use in the GasGas clutch starting way after 1995 came from Mountain bike disc brake designs that use MINERAL OIL instead of DOT 4 I do not remember these MINERAL OIL bicycle disc brake system being around in 1995 I could be wrong , If they had disc brakes then they probably would have been mechanical cam operated. Has any member on here got the necessary information ?. Edited February 4 by Tr1AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrc450 Posted February 4 Author Report Share Posted February 4 Thank you for all the info,and your time it very much appreciated ,i have sent a email to BRIXIA MOTO in ITALY so hope they can help ,will post when i have more info. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrc450 Posted February 4 Author Report Share Posted February 4 The clutch slave cylinder is located outside the engine,on clutch lever as Tr1AL said,All the best Tj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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