Down and back pegs and a few other TLR noob questions - Reflex

[johnnyjazz]

Some questions for the mechanical meastros!  Please forgive me if answers are posted already.  My fingers have been walking down google lane all morning but still not sure.

So, despite my best intentions to enjoy the bike 'for what it is' - (a poor US hillbilly cousin of kinda decent Euro bike) my desire to practice all the trials stuff i grew up with in the UK overrides my desire to 'trail ride or green laning' which i thought would take priority. 

The predicted choir that shall be singing "dump the reflex and buy a proper trials bike"  please remember the ONLY reason for getting this bike is it's fully street legal and i have to ride past a cop shop to my secret private trials area.  Whilst seemingly happy turn a blind eye to my trials work in the woods, not so to DOT obligations, understandably.  Plus for $58 Fully comp insurance and a $6 MOT cant really argue.  Especially in NY state...where no one is allowed to do anything fun anymore-  unless its to do with horses or mountain bikes...lol!   I know there is more twin shock action (dare i say scene?) upstate near Albany but that's a wee trek from just north of the city....

All that said...trying to make a few cheap mods as i have sussed some local PRIMO woodland/industrial spots.   Luckily most people here don't even know what trials is so the idea of going really slowly, quietly, not racing others is a bit of an anathema for them....   they think me very strange.. that i practice balancing in the driveway.  I explain its the Tai Chi of motorcycle sport, mechanical ballet if you will.  They still don't understand.

i digress..any help for anything here...

Q1: When i got the bike it had been fitted with bar risers which appear to push the bars forward and up.  Is this the same as moving the pegs down and back?   or (as i suspect) moving pegs back and down will offer a further improvement regarding the center of gravity?   confirmation/denial?

Q2: currently stock at 13/44 WAY too fast... not sure 9/44 will offer practical transportation on the tarmac in traffic ( its a 2-3 mile ride from home)  so, is 11/44 the best compromise? or will that still be too fast? any input appreciated regarding road speeds and trials ability as i need the best of both worlds (impossible though i know! lol)

Q3: If i repace shocks.. 400mm 50lb are the right ones?  (5'9. 165lbs *edited after)

Q4: From peoples experience, is the current skid plate acceptable enough for clubman class c line routes... im 50 this year and had waaaay to many accidents to want more so not predicting any super heavy riding... plus with US health insurance as it is...

Q5: Are clutch / rear brake extenders a useful addition?

Q6: I understand the best tire is the IRC trials, but as its not DOT legit im looking at pirelli MT43.. any other suggestons? 

Q7: Is the weight and slight power increase of say, a WES exhaust - worth losing the stealth silence of the stock?

Thanks so much for any help.

Its just a bit of fun, a distraction project.  My inlaws have moved in for the summer.  i need the distraction more than i need to 'not waste money on something that will never be perfect'.   actually using that analogy, Wife comes quickly to mind .....lol!

To conclude, regarding the reflex- My (very humble) overall feeling, as others have stated, is that riders were just better in the 80s! i grew up in north of England and learnt to ride in the dove holes quarry in Derbyshire on Ty80s / 250s. Fantics/ Ossas/bultacos et al as a kid..  it all just seemed more 'analogue' back then, body position, throttle control, sheer strength, AND riders health, fitness and general vitality!.... or maybe its just nostalgia as i still get excited hearing the kickstart music theme song!!  

Thanks for the friendship, support and encouragement from New York. Peace.  Johnny  

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:53 PM by johnnyjazz

[lemur]

Do you have nice wide grippy foot pegs mounted now?  they make a big difference, do that first before altering peg positions is generally best.  Biggest problem I had with any twin-shock bike was all the bruises on the insides of my legs.   Best riders don't use the bash plate so on that item ymmv depending how good you ride.  Crashing is going to happen if you try hard enough stuff and at 69 I don't mind the crashes if I can ride the harder stuff, crashing is motivation to ride better 👍 I stud the tires and winter ride too which is a blast and extends the riding season significantly for our latitude.  On gearing you need at minimum one off road gear range that takes you from 0 to as fast as the engine can hall you by only just controlling the clutch friction zone, biggest hills you need to climb or biggest splats you will ever ride are usually the best gauge.  Some of your questions require seeing you ride, knowing body weight and dimensions, level and terrain you typically ride etc.  Reflex is almost as good as twin-shock bikes come next to SWM but brakes and suspension would be inadequate for where I ride and I know I would crash badly.  

Ride lots and prosper 🖖

[johnnyjazz]

Thank you Lemur for such an insightful and eloquent answer.  69! damn..you go man.. i'd love to have the confidence (and skill) to ride more aggressively and try larger things but as my riding is (sadly) 100% solo and quite isolated i must needs be diligent and ride to my ability.-

Will start with foot peg widening first as they are stock. most pleased to make your acquaintance, sir and thanks again

Edited Wednesday at 08:22 PM by johnnyjazz

[lemur]

I have an awesome riding area if you travel to Central Frontenac Ontario hit me up 😎 I regularly host competition events and riding is all I do when I'm not fixing broken things.

[feetupfun]

When geared for trials riding, they are fine for trials riding. Steering and geometry are excellent. They can be made lighter and handle even better than standard with lighter exhaust, fuel tank and lighter wheel rims. WES exhausts are quite quiet. It would be the first thing I would do to prepare a Reflex or a TLR200 for competition (because of the weight).

You may be a bit light for 50 pound shock springs.

At 5"9" you may feel a bit uncomfortable with the standard bar mount/bar rise/footpeg location setup. Yes lowering the pegs is better for balance than raising the bars to achieve a comfortable riding position.

No you don't need to alter the brakes.

Pirelli MT43 are good for the road and trail riding but terrible in trials sections (due to extreme carcass stiffness). MITAS make a road legal rear trials tyre that is better than the MT43 for trials but not as good as a proper competition trials tyre (due to the lower carcass flexibility). Note these are both tubeless tyres so you may have issues getting them to fit properly on a standard Reflex rim (which are made for tubed tyres).

You didn't mention tyre pressures but your comments about gearing make me think you will want to go faster than tyres with 3-4 psi will cope with (overheating tyres and weird handling on the road).

It's very rare to touch the bashplate on anything nowadays using proper technique but if you ride amongst rocks and are not confident, it's probably a good idea financially to have a bashplate that is effective because engine cover repairs or replacements are expensive.

Back in the 1970s it was a fairly normal thing to ride on the road with road gearing and change to a smaller front sprocket when you got to the riding area. It's not clear why you need to go fast on the road anyway. Can't you do the 2-3 miles on the road at a sensible speed?

[johnnyjazz]

David! Senor 'Feet up fun!' Hello again Sir    i'm back again! this time with a honda tractor.  that said, The TY you and others coached me through i more than doubled my money on, and as you know got me a nice tidy 2015 Bonneville T100 so i will always owe you a cold one my friend.

Again, as stated prior, in the world of reductive thinking and generic generalizations from ill informed amateurs, i cant thank you, and others here, for your kindness and wisdom and your willingness to share it. I wish i could find this kind of support and openness to help strangers on my doorstep! lol

Brilliant points all!

Re shocks.. I might be light now but methinks that's only going in one direction! lol... Nah, health and fitness is pretty important to me.  i'll take recommendation that 40lb might be better and thus help to keep me off the mince pies.

Will widen footpegs first, then investigate the 'down and back' vibe. - luckily after moving to the 'burbs up here, met an old boy few houses down..he's an old skool Harley/Indian vet and has offered to help me fabricate and weld and change wheels etc...who is luckier than me!! - plus some of my 'secret' spots are spots he told me about where he rode dirt bikes as a kid 50 years ago! he just adores that us 'younger' ones actually care and show them respect for what they know.  when i tell him how much the stealership charges for triumph stuff he starts crying and says he wishes more people could learn to do it themselves...He was going to help me reshoe the bonnie but with the spoke wheels and tubes and immaculate chrome i think he got nervous! lol.. but knocking up foot peg wideners..no probs!!  However, am i correct in thinking thee are no wide foot pegs off the shelf that just bolt on -they all need a bracket anyway for modern pegs - is that erroneous thinking?

Very insightful and important point about speed and tire pressures.  thank you for the reminder, i guess its all a compromise.  they are pretty low and cornering at 30 is a little dicey.  Im certainly not a 'speed' guy.  i have a great road bike for that.  but i potter in the 30-40 mph range on tarmac.   fully agreed that for a wee run of a few miles that could easily be 20-30mph... if i could get 35mph tops that be great as its then a beater for running to the bodega etc too.. HOwever, developing skill and technique is more important than that of course!   regarding why not just get a proper trials bike and a trailer? i think im holding out for electric technology to pique my interest further when prices come down a bit... i digress..

Great tire suggestions...that would explain why the TY, which had MT43s, was a bit sucky when i was really trying to 'get into it' in my industrial sections when i was in Brooklyn...but great at 40mph!  Still remember the looks i got riding through Manhattan (often standing) to go to Macy's to get the nail polish color you suggested for the chips in the tank! priceless  that was genius getting that one plated! they removed that loophole of 'grandfathering in' older bikes via Vermont.  i believe you can do it still in some states but its much harder and more difficult.  That's why i jumped on the reflex when it came under my nose...

thanks for top tips on bash plate.  I think i ride in a way which is 'lets see if i can get over that big log' and inevitably often end up hitting the bash plate on something! terrible technique lol...all part the fun! i'm trying to get better!. I did the aftermarket one for the TY and it went down well (just for the fun of doing it) but i remember the one on the TY was a composite plastic type where as the honda has a metal one, pretty flimsy looking mind you! lol...we'll see on that one.  Get my buddy rich to fab something up no worries!.

I'm thinking (esp with your encouragement) to do what i did with the TY.  take off all the original stuff (store diligently) and just go for a frankenbike that's plated.  When i purchased it i thought some of the fire breaks for the electricity pylons would be ok for a bit of trailing - but man, you've never seen so many signs enforcing otherwise! hence back to dreaming of being dougie lampkin  (at least dreams are free!)

Thanks again dave, appreciate  the time and effort it takes to reply.  i posted a pic in another thread asking about a new gear lever, but so you can see my new toy, she still looks pretty nice methinks...... very best, Johnny

Edited Thursday at 02:15 PM by johnnyjazz

[lemur]

Small aluminum shovel can be cut and converted into a cheap but very effective bash plate 🤓

[johnnyjazz]

Thanks Lemur! top tip sir and i very much look forward to getting  to Ontario one day to ride with ya!  

[MichaelW]

I just posted pictures of my 1986 TLR200 , I replaced rear shocks(with OZO gas from Lewisport USA), rebuilt front shocks, replacement foot pegs, lower & to rear bolt on units from Feked) replaced gas tank (from eBay), got miscellaneous parts off eBay/Amazon/Partzilla, another good source is Feked or In Motion Trials, both in UK and both carry many replacement and upgrade parts for the TLR200. I took off all light off mine as I live in rural area, no cops 🙂 Good luck!

[johnnyjazz]

Thank you so much Brother MichaelW! now that's what I'm talkin 'bout! .... love it - and inspiring to see its obviously NOT as terrible as the modern naysayers would have us believe!  appreciate your kind reply (and previous post on your reflex).  OZO shocks. great recommendation, as is everything else coming my way!  Also headin to UK to see family soon so can pick up some stuff direct too.  390mm not 400mm i see falcons and betors are 400mm for the reflex..are the OZOs better at 10mm shorter?

Anyway..i know if i put dougie on the 'flex -even as it is now- and i had his latest works bike, i promise he'd still clean all 'normal' sections and id be getting 5's in everything! lol.. as mentioned earlier,  the modern bikes have advanced exponentially, though on the whole it seems rider health and fitness (compared to yesteryear) certainly hasn't!  a quick look at a random selection of pics from a 'non pro' trial in the 70s versus now illustrates that (imho) . 

i think the cigarettes helped!  lol! Talking of which, first ever book i got out the library as a kid in 1980s UK was Don Smiths 'learn to ride trials' . I thought it so cool as he had a fag (* UK usage) hanging out his mouth climbing some massive muddy bank on the front cover!...same with mick andrews, always smoking!.. man, i thought they were cool when i was 12...no wonder the Rothmans sponsorship on TLRs!...    nowadays, no one smoking and we all little cry babies! lol...- put me at the top of the list mind you!  

just curious - how many people put physical workouts - push ups/sit ups/ running etc - as part of their 'trials training'? i do boxing training too (badly) and im generally more 'done in' after doing an hour of trials....Thats why i think the vtg twin shocks are an excellent investment in long term health!   well, that was the excuse to the missus anyway.... lol!.. she actually said she might want to have a go on it... the bike that is, not me. sadly.   Still, not many wives that barely bat an eyelid when you bring the second bike home..  So she a keeper.  the bike that is! lol...

you guys are great! peace and progress, Johnny

Edited Thursday at 05:52 PM by johnnyjazz

[lemur]

Riding trials bikes renders all other forms of physical exercise boring.

[timdog]

Another option re exhaust. If you really want to replace system with an alloy one great, however this is what I have, bike runs and rides very well with it, also sounds lovely but still quiet

Just a matter of cutting rear silencer where it thins to pass shock, then having exit pipe welded. Cheap and effective.

[johnnyjazz]

Love it, timdog! Thanks u so much for great recommendation!   anything cheap and effective piques my interest! ...happy weekend all!